Do you think that torturing a baby is ever justified?

Originally posted by Mindship
An alternative metaphor to the Abrahamic God...

"God...likes to play hide-and-seek, but because there is nothing outside God, he has no one but himself to play with. But he gets over this difficulty by pretending that he is not himself. This is his way of hiding from himself. He pretends that he is you and I and all the people in the world, all the animals, all the plants, all the rocks, and all the stars. In this way he has strange and wonderful adventures, some of which are terrible and frightening. But these are just like bad dreams, for when he wakes up they will disappear.

"You may ask why God sometimes hides in the form of horrible people, or pretends to be people who suffer great disease and pain. Remember, first, that he isn't really doing this to anyone but himself. Remember, too, that in almost all the stories you enjoy there have to be bad people as well as good people, for the thrill of the tale is to find out how the good people will get the better of the bad."

-- Alan Watts, excerpt from, The Book: the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

Give a whole new meaning to, --- go **** yourself. 😱 😱 😄 😂

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Yes but then God would have to answer for creating the little monster in the first place.

Regards
DL

But you would have to believe in a creation.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But you would have to believe in a creation.

True. And I am not ready to go into intellectual dissonance.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Give a whole new meaning to, --- go **** yourself. 😱 😱 😄 😂

Regards
DL

I thought that part was especially carefully worded. No wonder nirvana is bliss.

God doesn't "play" with anyone. Including Himself. He is above all petty human desires.

sometimes

Originally posted by Star428
God doesn't "play" with anyone. Including Himself. He is above all petty human desires.

It is amusing when people start talking about an all powerful God and attempt to understand him through their meaty brains. Either say there's no God or that there is and you can't understand him. The idea that one can argue about an omniscient being and not understand that omniscience/omnipotence precludes him from understanding intention or action, is pretty ludicrous.

*shakes head* He is above petty human desires..except, ya know, for all the times he isn't. If nothing else he quite clearly desires our worship. He also does play with us. Telling someone to kill their own child and then at the last second more or less saying "just kidding! Just wanted to see if you'd do it!" is pretty much the definition of playing with people.

If he was above petty human desires he would not care one iota if we stole from each other or killed each other. If he had no human desires he wouldn't of even felt the need to set out any commandments at all.

If he was above petty human desires he would not care one iota if we stole from each other or killed each other. If he had no human desires he wouldn't of even felt the need to set out any commandments at all.

Originally posted by Star428
God doesn't "play" with anyone. Including Himself. He is above all petty human desires.

Metaphor. When God plays hide-n-seek, petty human desires are among his favorite game pieces.

Originally posted by psmith81992
God doesn't have any "desires", no matter how much rationalizing the secularist/atheist crowd does. I understand this is one of those "feel good about myself" threads. But come on..

The Abrahamic God is one example. Hide-n-seek is another. We are not separate from the Source/Ground of Reality. God knows desire through us. Beyond us ... that's entirely "His" unknowable business.

Metaphor.

Originally posted by psmith81992
You don't know his intention. You're a human. Your mind is limited. Therefore this mental masturbation is meaningless when discussing this topic. And he doesn't "need" us, he considers us serving him(or not) our privilege.
*shakes head* indeed.

Actions speak louder then words though. You don't get to handwave all that with "you just don't get it".

He also DOES need us to worship in. Not in the sense of "he will die without worship" but in the sense of "this guy is an arrogant little prick who thinks everyone should bow to him because he said so".

Also you talk about how we can't possibly understand him, but then say he considers us serving him a privilege. Saying "he considers us serving our privilege" implies some level of understanding. If you, a human, can at least come to some partial understanding then he can't be that utterly alien.

As for the discussion being meaningless, well yes..but then that goes for quite literally any discussion on religion.

Actions speak louder then words though. You don't get to handwave all that with "you just don't get it".

He also DOES need us to worship in. Not in the sense of "he will die without worship" but in the sense of "this guy is an arrogant little prick who thinks everyone should bow to him because he said so".

Also you talk about how we can't possibly understand him, but then say he considers us serving him a privilege. Saying "he considers us serving our privilege" implies some level of understanding. If you, a human, can at least come to some partial understanding then he can't be that utterly alien.

Everything else is meaningless mental masturbation to make one feel "unique" or "intelligent" that he doesn't believe in "ghosts".

Excuse me sir, my being beyond your comprehension says you are wrong and that Gods and beings beyond comprehension have to apply by human morals. Obviously you can not refute that as you can't question a being beyond your comprehension, so I guess you'll just have to take that as a fact.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Excuse me sir, my being beyond your comprehension says you are wrong and that Gods and beings beyond comprehension have to apply by human morals. Obviously you can not refute that as you can't question a being beyond your comprehension, so I guess you'll just have to take that as a fact.

Works for me.

Pleasure doing business

Originally posted by Bardock42
Pleasure doing business

You'd have a point if you actually believed what you said. Since the monotheistic God is described as all knowing all powerful, you must teach me about your newfound religion.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Yes you do. You don't pretend to understand an all power being with limited human understanding. I didn't say it justifies anything though.

"Arrogant little prick" through your limited meat capacity. That doesn't mean much honestly.

There are two ways to have a limited understanding:
1. From things God explicitly says to you, or Moses, etc (with accurate translation).
2. Explanations from implicit sayings.

Everything else is meaningless mental masturbation to make one feel "unique" or "intelligent" that he doesn't believe in "ghosts".

But that is the thing, we are using our "limited capacity" to try to understand as best we can, that was the entire point the thread was even made.

You can say there is no point in discussing it, but if we *are* going to..we can only apply our puny little brains to it. That is why handwaving doesn't really work here. Keep in mind this discussion is no more or less hypothetical then a discussion on if Superman could beat up The Hulk.

Originally posted by Surtur
But that is the thing, we are using our "limited capacity" to try to understand as best we can, that was the entire point the thread was even made.

You can say there is no point in discussing it, but if we *are* going to..we can only apply our puny little brains to it. That is why handwaving doesn't really work here. Keep in mind this discussion is no more or less hypothetical then a discussion on if Superman could beat up The Hulk.

I understand but my problem is not with the hypothetical discussion as much as the opinions being brought up. Those who subscribe to the idea of a higher being also subscribe to the belief that they cannot understand him for the most part. So calling god "childish" or a tyrant because he killed the newborn of Egypt is kind of silly, because you don't know or understand why. I get the point of intellectual discourse but a discussion on religion never ends up that way.