On-topic, Plagueis wins. The Orbalisks and general teamwork makes the fight a hard one but Plagueis is simply better than Bane in every category sans durability (which isn't really relevant here). Zannah's absolutely outclassed as well, and her defensive abilities would help Bane ward off Plagueis for a time, but she's inevitably going to be either ragdolled or dismembered by his lightsaber.
Plagueis is aware that she practices Sorcery - he'd probably maintain the pressure on her to keep her from prepping any mental attacks, and Bane is just too slow to prevent that from happening. It's only a matter of time before Zannah dies, after which Plagueis is free to exploit Bane's weaknesses.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Except for running and dueling Venamis throughout a forest (which isn't your ideal racetrack) with such speed that an onlooker would've perceived their bout as forks of lightning streaking through the forest understory.Bane isn't that fast, that's ridiculous.
Neither is Plagueis, that's just his supposition and it could easily mean their sabers clashing on one another. You're also misquoting that.
Also running speed is bullshit. Bane actually moved fast enough that even Zannah fought he was wielding a dozen sabers at once, which is just as good a feat as any of Plagueis'.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Neither is Plagueis, that's just his supposition and it could easily mean their sabers clashing on one another.Also running speed is bullshit. Bane actually moved fast enough that even Zannah fought he was wielding a dozen sabers at once, which is just as good a feat as any of Plagueis'.
Then you realize that speed is relative, and the fact she actually kept up means he obviously wasn't that fast...
Originally posted by Nephthys
Neither is Plagueis, that's just his supposition and it could easily mean their sabers clashing on one another. You're also misquoting that.Also running speed is bullshit. Bane actually moved fast enough that even Zannah fought he was wielding a dozen sabers at once, which is just as good a feat as any of Plagueis'.
Wasn't quoting anything, but I got the gist of the feat.
Yes, Plagueis is that fast. I fail to see how you can sit there and claim it might just be his supposition/hyperbole/whatever else and that it's probably not accurate, and yet talk about Bane's dozen blades to Zannah thing, which evidently wasn't the case because Zannah actually fended off his strikes for a brief period of time. If she really saw a dozen blades coming at her at once she'd be blitzed and would only parry two to three attacks at most.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Wasn't quoting anything, but I got the gist of the feat.Yes, Plagueis is that fast. I fail to see how you can sit there and claim it might just be his supposition/hyperbole/whatever else and that it's probably not accurate, and yet talk about Bane's dozen blades to Zannah thing, which evidently wasn't the case because Zannah actually fended off his strikes for a brief period of time. If she really saw a dozen blades coming at her at once she'd be blitzed and would only parry two to three attacks at most.
It doesn't say anything about forks of lightning, that makes it sound better than it really is.
Lmao. The difference is that we were directly told what Zannah was seeing whereas Plagueis just though "gee wiz, we'd look like lightning flashes" and then we never actually saw that. So saying it "evidently didn't happen" is kind of dumb considering we were directly told it did happen. And you do know that Zannah has this little thing? Called the Force? That lets her block attacks that she can't even see through super-enhanced reflexes and precognition? I know that its kind of hard to remember something established in the first ever star wars movie but trust me on this. And she also has technique where she spins her lightsaber and redirects attacks in such a way that she doesn't even need to be capable of perceiving the attack to defend against it. Also maybe her speed just exceeds her enhanced perceptions.
I mean, Maul was also fending off Sidious' attacks despite there being a ****ton from his perceptions in the novel.
"Plagueis took a moment to wonder if anyone at the fort was observing the results of the contest, which from afar, must have looked like lightning flashing through the forest's understory."
Im with neph on this. It was just his opinion on what he thought it would look like to people seeing it from far away. In my opinion the pretty substantial distance they were from the fort and the fact that plagueis mentions what it would look like from afar makes it fairly obvious he was talking about what their sabers clashing would look like to them.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It doesn't say anything about forks of lightning, that makes it sound better than it really is.Lmao. The difference is that we were directly told what Zannah was seeing whereas Plagueis just though "gee wiz, we'd look like lightning flashes" and then we never actually saw that. So saying it "evidently didn't happen" is kind of dumb considering we were directly told it did happen. And you do know that Zannah has this little thing? Called the Force? That lets her block attacks that she can't even see through super-enhanced reflexes and precognition? I know that its kind of hard to remember something established in the first ever star wars movie but trust me on this. And she also has technique where she spins her lightsaber and redirects attacks in such a way that she doesn't even need to be capable of perceiving the attack to defend against it. Also maybe her speed just exceeds her enhanced perceptions.
I mean, Maul was also fending off Sidious' attacks despite there being a ****ton from his perceptions in the novel.
That's just me briefly recounting it, not precisely quoting it. Just lightning, then.
The first Star Wars movie showed us you can block without seeing, sure, but that's clairvoyance more than anything else. As you said, Zannah has enhanced perceptions. I think we have a lot more to doubt Bane's showing on, including the fact that even Hetton managed to react to him, and he's obviously not as fast as Zannah. Seeing a dozen blades at once could well be true anyway, but it's still not as impressive as Plagueis's feat, particularly because it occurs before his prime and takes place in a forest, which isn't a good environment for running.
Sure, we have reason to say that we have no confirmation of what Plagueis doing, but just as you'd defend Bane's feat, I'd say Plagueis would have a pretty solid understanding of human reflexes and perceptions after having lived for well over a human lifetime alongside humans, and he was obviously convinced of his musings which I doubt would've been baseless. That's hardly his only speed feat, though. He's ran in blurs to droids who could easily dodge a multitude of blaster fire, and alongside Sidious, fought an army of Kursid warriors before his prime, disusing offensive Force powers and using only Force pikes, and still emerging victorious with no injury.
Actually, no. If you read the text carefully, Maul dodged two blows before he saw the countless blades (and then "even more than that"😉, and the only thing the text states afterwards is that Maul got disarmed. So no, Maul never parried any blows when seeing lightsabers everywhere. He dodged two blows as Sidious's speed increased, and when Sidious's speed presumably peaked to the point where Maul was losing track of how many blades there were, he was simply disarmed.
In the show, we're never lead to the conclusion that Maul saw that many blades in the slightest (and the manner in which he gets disarmed is totally different). The fights in the show and in the novel are different and are largely incompatible with one another.
For reference, though, here's the quote:
"Sidious raised his saber and flew at Maul, who parried desperately, his mechanical legs whirring as he sought to counter his former Master’s blows. Sidious’s sabers were a blur, a whirling cage of deadly plasma. Maul danced away from one blow, then reversed his movement to avoid another, and then there were too many to count, and then there were even more than that.
Maul’s saber spun out of his hand, bouncing away across the floor."
Just notice the words "then" means it happened after, and Maul didn't repel any blows after that - he just got disarmed.
The kursid warrior feat isnt really super impressive as a speed feat. Maybe an endurance feat.
They were non force sensitive, primitive warriors who were using axes and spears, and attacking in groups of 2 and 3.
"But the sith had simply ignored their offerings, waiting instead on the stony plain for the primitives to deploy their warriors, as the primitives did now with Plagueis and Sidious"
"A nod from Plagueis, and the two sith sped across the plain to meet them, flying among them like wraiths, evading arrows, gleaming spear tips, and blows from battle axes, going one against one, two, or three, but felling opponent after opponent with taps from force pikes,"
Flying among them like wraiths sounds cool but i wouldn't consider it one of the best speed feats in the mythos. Far from it actually. And i still havent seen anything that puts him on an uber elite speed level like most are saying.
I mean the guy got half his face ripped off by a non force sensitive assassin throwing basically a big ninja star. And he threw it so fast that Plagueis didnt even see it or know what happened until he reached up and touched what was left of his face.
If he could fight and perceive things at the speeds that r being argued that would have been like slow motion to him.