Morals

Originally posted by Mindship
Morals are seen as subjective because they are not "rooted" in the physical world like, say, gravity or digestion. And in a culture with a strong secular element, Divine Authority is not universally agreed upon, so again, morals can be seen as relative.

One could say that from an evolutionary viewpoint, some morals work better than others in fostering a long-term, peaceful and prosperous society (eg, murder: bad). But as a rule, people don't consider evolution when discussing moral behavior.

Originally posted by Van Hohenheim
Digestion is a physical law?shocking

Originally posted by Mindship
"rooted" in the physical world

Originally posted by Van Hohenheim
Digestion is a physical law?shocking
I do however agree that morals are subjective and exist only because they were/are beneficial for survival (evolution).

evolution based morals is an interesting branch to bring up

My idea of what morals are is that they are a a fluid, ever changing agreed upon idea of how to act.

How would you argue or reinforce the point of evolution?

Only one I can think of is its morally wrong to slaughter thousands of people, assuming they are not doing the same.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
I always thought that was "morally" true until one real life incident proved me wrong & I resolved that dilemma by never interfering in someone else's problem ever again.

Years ago I witnessed this guy yelling abuse & physically restraining this woman on the street. She was screaming & crying & I instinctively ran over & pushed the guy away from her.
I held him down whilst she ran off down the street, flagged down a cab & drove off.

The guy broke down in tears.
Turns out he just found out she was cheating on him & was on her way to the airport to fly out of the country with their kids, without him knowing.

And I helped that happen, thinking I was a Good Samaritan.

So yeah, F that. I won't ever interfere in someone else's problem ever again.

... That's ****ed

Thou I suppose the reasons behind morals should be questioned

I like how people in this thread seem to be completely oblivious to the concept of normative ethics or moral philosophy in general.

Enlighten them, master.

Originally posted by Mindship
Digestion is
Physical laws are, no doubt, involved. 🍺

Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
evolution based morals is an interesting branch to bring up

My idea of what morals are is that they are a a fluid, ever changing agreed upon idea of how to act.

How would you argue or reinforce the point of evolution?

Only one I can think of is its morally wrong to slaughter thousands of people, assuming they are not doing the same.

Originally posted by Van Hohenheim
"rooted", what do you mean by that? Is digestion essential to the "physical world", is that what you mean?

Originally posted by Van Hohenheim
There is still a lot we don't know about evolution in general and how our bodies work, but how morality connects with evolution is theorised to be that some animals display morality as a social benefit. That is to say morality helps make a stronger group, thus it's a beneficial trait. http://www1.umn.edu/ships/evolutionofmorality/text.htm

Well socially agreed benefits would definitely further evolution over a long period of time is consistant

Originally posted by Mindship
More like, the physical world "is essential" for digestion. Ie, it is a physical phenomenon.

But this is irrelevant, really, I was just giving you a hard time.

Originally posted by Van Hohenheim
But this is irrelevant, really, I was just giving you a hard time.

digestion in what sense?

Originally posted by Mindship
No problema. I'll take you off my Special Education list.

Originally posted by Astner
I like how people in this thread seem to be completely oblivious to the concept of normative ethics or moral philosophy in general.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Because morals =/= ethics.

.

Since we are on the subject of MORALS, does the underlying PHILOSOPHIES in Star Wars contradict the Bible?

Find out here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f80/t643061.html

My moral code boils down to love everyone and do what makes logical sense from there given that motivation, and this is something I've arrived at from looking at morality from a variety of perspectives and coming to the same conclusion, the same perennial truth if you will.

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1. From the perspective of Christianity (my religion), Jesus stated his two greatest commandments were "Love God" and "Love yourself and other people," which essentially boils down to love everyone. So again, love everyone, and do what makes logical sense from there given that motivation.

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2. From the perspective of my understanding of the moral compass that I have attained from experiences with psychedelics, I think there are two primary motivational forces in man, one of which is love, and the other is a visceral fear that one's own existence is without meaning.

Love stems from an embracement of one's own existence through self-awareness, and self-awareness is the ultimate truth because its the one thing we can be 100% certain of (Rene Descartes came to this conclusion of the ultimate truth pretty aptly). From there it follows that a person would conclude that if they exist and experience stuff then there is meaning either causing or at the very least within their lives, which leads them to love, which is the motivation behind all good.

The nihilistic fear that one's own existence has no meaning is the most irrational thought ever and directly contradicts the ultimate truth, which is why I would call the thought that one's existence is meaningless the ultimate lie. From the ultimate lie/fear, springs insecurity, self-doubt, and self-loathing, which from then motivates arrogance so people can try and escape this fear with an inflated image of themselves, and arrogance/pride is ultimately what motivates and allows people to justify all evil.

This is heavily reflected in Christian theology, as God introduces himself to Noah as "I am that I am" (a statement of self-awareness which is the ultimate truth), Jesus saying that his greatest commandment is to act out of love (which is the motivation behind all moral action), and Jesus saying to be humble and Christian theology teaching that pride is the father of all sin.

So from this perspective I come to the same conclusion of love everyone and do what makes sense from there since that motivation is based on the ultimate truth whereas the motivation for evil is based upon the ultimate lie.

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3. If I am to look at the nature of meaning philosophically, regardless of my religious perspective, it appears that meaning only exists within or in relation to self aware beings. Thus acting in the interest of what meaning exists within the universe would mean valuing that meaning and acting in the best interest of that meaning. This again leads me to the conclusion of love everyone and do what makes logical sense from there.

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4. Kant suggested that to be moral one should act in a way that if everyone acted in such a way it would lead to the best end result, or in other words in a way most conducive to progress. With the goal of progress in mind, Aldous Huxley posited the final end principle, which was that the primary principle in human actions should be a consideration of whether or not said action would contribute to the best possible end for oneself and others... which once again leads me to love everyone and do what makes logical sense from there.

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In this respect, I don't believe morality is subjective, I believe it is objective, and even if I factored out my belief in God I would still find morality to be an objective thing.

The objective moral code is acting out of a motivation of love for everyone and doing what makes the most sense out of every possible action, however this objective moral code is unknowable to us because we are not omniscient beings. Thus functionally morality is subjective even though in actuality it is objective, and I believe it is everyone's responsibility to act out of love which is the objectively moral motivation and to try and do what makes the most sense in service to that motivation.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
My moral code boils down to love everyone

The nihilistic fear that one's own existence has no meaning is the most irrational thought ever

arrogance/pride is ultimately what motivates and allows people to justify all evil.