Socialism Failures

Originally posted by red g jacks
i do think the media/hollywood is largely left leaning (by american standards) tbh

fox news is obviously a republican propaganda machine.. what other parts of the media are right wing?

Everything owned by wall street and then there is talk radio.

When it comes to national talk radio, conservatives are king…
--Philadelphia Daily News, May 8, 2002*

Conservative political commentators are not just the majority on talk radio--they monopolize it. It's easy to rattle off a list of celebrity conservative radio commentators: Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, G. Gordon Liddy, Neal Boortz, Mike Gallagher, Matt Drudge, Bob Dornan, Michael Reagan, Oliver North, Michael Medved, Bob Grant, Ken Hamblin, Pat Buchanan, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage--and the list goes on.

However, it is virtually impossible to name progressive or Democratic talk show hosts with the listenership, celebrity, and entertainment value of any of the above-mentioned conservatives.

Limbaugh alone is on 600 stations and has a listenership of about 20 million. O'Reilly is on 205, and is estimated to have as many as 15 million.*

The spectrum of opinion on national political commercial talk radio shows ranges from extreme right wing to very extreme right wing--there is virtually nothing else, wrote Edward Monks in the Eugene, Oregon Register-Guard in 2002.****

http://www.completecampaigns.com/article.asp?articleid=88

Damn facts, that's the annoying thing about them you can prove anything..... unlike cat pictures and tin foil hats.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I don't understand that in terms of the big picture. Like bardock said, it seems to be a matter of us having much more money now that the purchasing power of the 1950s is negated. At least that's what the graphs say.

I think what we can conclude after all of this discussion, today, is that we agree that 91% effective margin taxes on the top 1% is doable since:

1. We are more "affluent" as a nation than in 1950.
2. Our rich are even richer.

But we should fix the tax code before we consider taxing the f*** out of the rich. If the rich just had to pay more taxes, the taxes they should be paying already, then I see no issue. Right now, there are too many holes.

Damn facts, that's the annoying thing about them you can prove anything..... unlike cat pictures and tin foil hats.

You're right 👆 😂
Now let the adults talk.

I think what we can conclude after all of this discussion, today, is that we agree that 91% effective margin taxes on the top 1% is doable since:

1. We are more "affluent" as a nation than in 1950.
2. Our rich are even richer.

And I didn't agree that the 91% tax rate was even valid. That's retarded high. Perhaps 50% on the top 1% would do the trick but 91% is insane.

@ knife

well first off you picked an article from more than a decade ago... don't you think things could have changed somewhat since then?

second i wasn't thinking about radio... i was thinking tv. that said... npr is pretty liberal. though yea guys like limbaugh and savage get more attention. probably because people largely find them much more entertaining. that might be unpleasant for liberals to confront, but it is what it is. i'm not right wing at all but i can listen to michael savage and find him extremely entertaining.. of course not agreeing with a lot of his points.. he's still pretty intelligent and is very good at what he does. he is like a goebells type propaganda artist.. extremely skilled at his craft.

but i was just thinking i can turn on fox news and watch guys like oreilly or hannity give out the right wing narrative.. or i could flip over to msnbc and watch them do the same thing but for the democrats. the main difference to me is the oreilly & co are much more skilled at the art of propaganda than their leftist counterparts, and that is why fox news dominates in the ratings

cnn doesn't strike me as particularly right wing... they're just generic pro-establishment types

but i was also thinking about the messages sent in tv shows and movies outside of the political news spectrum... shows like modern family or movies like the purge.. i see a lot of leftist sentiment in pop culture and hollywood.. most right wing sentiments aren't deemed as appealing in those spheres... so the left is much more successful at propagandizing and social engineering through pop culture than through news channel talking heads

i mean honestly the best voice the left has in the current media is probably john stewart, and that's cause his status as a comedian gives him a bit more leeway as well as being charismatic because he is primarily an entertainer

Originally posted by psmith81992
Hold on a second, we don't agree on that. If I understand correctly, you're saying that because we have more money now than in 1950, we can leave the tax rate the same and purchasing power is irrelevant.

And I didn't agree that the 91% tax rate was even valid. That's retarded high. Perhaps 50% on the top 1% would do the trick but 91% is insane.

Maybe we do. Remember my point about economic growth being the highest in 1950s? I even linked a chart?

Seems we could probably handle taxes being that high. 🙂

I like my guaranteed minimum income (negative taxes, as Bardock42 put it), better. That way, the rich can become as rich as they want. As long as the poorest of the poor are on a decent livable income. Doesn't matter how rich the super rich are, imo.

Then you are really going to have to clarify what the cut off point is for top 1%, because I don't like the idea of earning your way to to top, and then paying 91% in taxes so everyone else can get a slice. This isn't socialism or communism. If my parents make a combined 500k (they don't but for example) and they have pay 91% on the taxable income (assume it's 500k for argument's sake), that would be ridiculous.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Then you are really going to have to clarify what the cut off point is for top 1%, because I don't like the idea of earning your way to to top, and then paying 91% in taxes so everyone else can get a slice. This isn't socialism or communism. If my parents make a combined 500k (they don't but for example) and they have pay 91% on the taxable income (assume it's 500k for argument's sake), that would be ridiculous.

As in I did all on my own and I don't owe you anything is is a complete falsehood. There is no such thing as a self made man. People who've made it to the top have had help along the way.

So I do think it is fair for the richest to pay more into the system that has benefitted them the most. Now 91% is probably high but honestly I wouldn't mind as high as 50-60% Especially for the 1%

To be fair I think there is a perspective problem with how some people view getting to the top.

As in I did all on my own and I don't owe you anything is is a complete falsehood. There is no such thing as a self made man. People who've made it to the top have had help along the way.

So I do think it is fair for the richest to pay more into the system that has benefitted them the most. Now 91% is probably high but honestly I wouldn't mind as high as 50-60% Especially for the 1%

Originally posted by psmith81992
Then you are really going to have to clarify what the cut off point is for top 1%, because I don't like the idea of earning your way to to top, and then paying 91% in taxes so everyone else can get a slice. This isn't socialism or communism. If my parents make a combined 500k (they don't but for example) and they have pay 91% on the taxable income (assume it's 500k for argument's sake), that would be ridiculous.

Just like the taxes were back then, it would be graduated.

Meaning, someone making 1 million would not make less actual income than someone making 950k. Capisco?

But, IIRC, becuase of how the tax system works, someone making 950k could end up paying no taxes, effectively, at all, and someone making 1 million could end up owing all of their income on taxes.

Originally posted by psmith81992
That's not what I was saying. But the opposite of what you just said is "well I got to the top so now I have to give away 91% of my taxable income".

I'm ok with that number.

Meaning, someone making 1 million would not make less actual income than someone making 950k. Capisco?

But, IIRC, becuase of how the tax system works, someone making 950k could end up paying no taxes, effectively, at all, and someone making 1 million could end up owing all of their income on taxes.

I would even be okay going as high as 75%.

Originally posted by red g jacks
@ knife

well first off you picked an article from more than a decade ago... don't you think things could have changed somewhat since then?

second i wasn't thinking about radio... i was thinking tv. that said... npr is pretty liberal. though yea guys like limbaugh and savage get more attention. probably because people largely find them much more entertaining. that might be unpleasant for liberals to confront, but it is what it is. i'm not right wing at all but i can listen to michael savage and find him extremely entertaining.. of course not agreeing with a lot of his points.. he's still pretty intelligent and is very good at what he does. he is like a goebells type propaganda artist.. extremely skilled at his craft.

but i was just thinking i can turn on fox news and watch guys like oreilly or hannity give out the right wing narrative.. or i could flip over to msnbc and watch them do the same thing but for the democrats. the main difference to me is the oreilly & co are much more skilled at the art of propaganda than their leftist counterparts, and that is why fox news dominates in the ratings

cnn doesn't strike me as particularly right wing... they're just generic pro-establishment types

but i was also thinking about the messages sent in tv shows and movies outside of the political news spectrum... shows like modern family or movies like the purge.. i see a lot of leftist sentiment in pop culture and hollywood.. most right wing sentiments aren't deemed as appealing in those spheres... so the left is much more successful at propagandizing and social engineering through pop culture than through news channel talking heads

i mean honestly the best voice the left has in the current media is probably john stewart, and that's cause his status as a comedian gives him a bit more leeway as well as being charismatic because he is primarily an entertainer

Yes g Jacks, they have in the interim time shifted further to the right, as indicated by the Overton window as I saw in a thread by someone else. The purge is incredibly right wing in my opinion.

@Kid Smith, the kid using wiki as a primary source and pretending to be educated and or rich. Here's a wiki rebuttal son 🙂

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Republican_Noise_Machine

Originally posted by Newjak
To be fair I think there is a perspective problem with how some people view getting to the top.

As in I did all on my own and I don't owe you anything is is a complete falsehood. There is no such thing as a self made man. People who've made it to the top have had help along the way.

So I do think it is fair for the richest to pay more into the system that has benefitted them the most. Now 91% is probably high but honestly I wouldn't mind as high as 50-60% Especially for the 1%

Good post and I completely agree.

Originally posted by Knife
Yes g Jacks, they have in the interim time shifted further to the right, as indicated by the Overton window as I saw in a thread by someone else. The purge is incredibly right wing in my opinion.

Originally posted by red g jacks
...really? so do you think the rich murderers in the purge are meant to be the good guys?

No but I think the fact the people supported the purge and are behind it says a lot about how the writer sees the majority of Americans and the choices they will be led into and who is to say he is wrong.

Originally posted by Knife
No but I think the fact the people supported the purge and are behind it says a lot about how the writer sees the majority of Americans and the choices they will be led into and who is to say he is wrong.

Agreed.

Goddamnit. You all blew up the thread overnight.

I am not reading all that. I already solved all humanity's problems pages ago.

Knife is a riot. Cnn, msnbc, and the daily show are all part of the right wing agenda since the right somehow own the media!

Originally posted by psmith81992
Knife is a riot. Cnn, msnbc, and the daily show are all part of the right wing agenda since the right somehow own the media!

You lost me at you give x00,000's to charity but have nothing better to do with your time than come on a small internet forum.

You lost me at you give x00,000's to charity but have nothing better to do with your time than come on a small internet forum.