Kas'im vs. Shaak Ti

Originally posted by Selenial
One may argue Kas'im is more skilled, but that is flawed. Kas'im's skill accolades come from a POD Bane, who'd never encountered a true masterful duelist before.

This is a common misconception. The passage that describes Kas'im's skill with a lightsaber details information that Bane didn't know about, such as the extent to which Kas'im had mastered Jar'Kai (given that Jar'Kai is what gave Kas'im the edge against Bane, something Bane didn't even know he could wield at all, and that the passage then goes on to attribute the manner in which Kas'im mastered everything and then spent decades perfecting his skills as the reason why Bane couldn't beat him).

Selenial - your thoughts on the size of the Rakatan temple please?

Originally posted by Selenial
How about you give us a brief run down then. For example, I'm on my phone right now and I say:

Shaak Ti is faster, stronger and far more cunning than Kas'im. She has proven herself to be a far greater duelist than someone who has been trained to perfection. One may argue Kas'im is more skilled, but that is flawed. Kas'im's skill accolades come from a POD Bane, who'd never encountered a true masterful duelist before. Galen's on the other hand come from a point of view that's far more reliable, yet he was "lucky to have survived" his duel with her.

In the aspect of Force usage, she has used Tutaminis to divert Lightning attacks sent at her by Starkiller, and has dealt with him launching telekinetic debris at her mid combat. She's shown herself to be a powerful practitioner of Kinetite and is more than a match for Kas'im in the force. Most people would say she could destroy him with it rather easily 👆

Originally posted by appletonia
You can try to blame the first fight entirely on exhaustion, but going by visual evidence, there isn't much to distinguish the physicality with which she fights during that fight, and how she fights later in the series. There certainly isn't much that would suggest any of the Jedi were overtly affected in a physical capacity in the fight itself - we see the usual acrobatics and applications of TK, and no real signs of exhaustion.

Just because they don't fight worse doesn't mean they weren't exhausted. Compare the speed Shaak fights to later scenes, and she is much slower. Notice the fact she's defeated by Grievous' strength, not his skill, and then think back to the fact that Shaak Ti crushed the head of a magnaguard with her bare knee. She was obviously not in peak physical condition in that fight, and was noticeably less powerful than her later appearances.

Both of which would indicate that while exhaustion surely was a factor, it wasn't a large enough one where you can completely dismiss the fact that she got utterly dominated by Grievous in the fight, while outnumbering him. A more accurate interpretation, and one that fits in place better with the source material, is that she was exhausted, obviously diminished to an extent, but being a Jedi, able to tap into extra reserves of energy and continue fighting with some high degree of physicality, and was simply not good enough to be competitive.

You need to analyse the fight more then. Grievous never fought more than two Jedi in an actual skill based duel, when surrounded by 4, he abused his rotary systems and waited until any of the Jedi let their guard down. Just because Shaak Ti could not save her Jedi friends does not mean she was dominated, at least during the fight with the other Jedi.

You can also use the other Jedi as a reference point, and she certainly didn't do much to seperate herself from the others, who were similarly exhausted.

Except she dueled him alone for a decent period of time. Look at the fact she wasn't out-skilled by Grievous, but was unable to match his speed and in the end his strength. In other instances she's shown a blinding speed easily capable of matching his, later on in the show she has the Strength to break a Magnaguard's face without the need of a weapon. Yet here his strength was too much, and his speed to great. The only reason for this would have been her exhaustion.

And I was referring to the incident at 2:10:35, where prior to this, she had showed impressive physicality in her fight against the MagnaGuards (you even included some speed feats from that fight in her respect thread) and seemed to be able to fight in adequate physical condition, rushes in to attack Grievous and gets brushed aside in one attack.

He literally says "You're tired Jedi" as well. Good lord do I need to spell it out for you even more simply than that?

At around 2 minutes into the video, you have Hayden Blackman, the executive producer of the game, talking about how they wanted to reimagine elements of Star Wars and in turn demonstrate an "amped up" version of what the Force is capable of, what the very title of the game is in reference to. Nothing specifically about Starkiller.

How hilarious that the Comic, the Game and the Novel were all written by different people then. Starkiller in the game can unleash force lightning to levels where he eviscerates a 50 Stormtroopers, in a non cutscene. He can bend an AT-ST to it's knees, in a non cutscene. That's what the developer seems to be referring to.

He has absolutely no pull whatsoever when it comes to the Novel or the Graphic Novel, both of which we're using here, not the game.

I'm sure you've dug up a tonne of quotes that are highly complimentary to her, but substantiate what being "one of the most powerful and revered Jedi in history" actually means, please (and provide the exact quotes).

*sigh* Could just read the ****ing respect thread, but OK:

“Shaak Ti is a Master of Makashi and Ataru forms in addition to her legendary strength in the force”

"Only the most skilled of the Order could stand against her!"

"The Jedi revere Shaak Ti as one of the highest in their order, and one of the most accomplished in Lightsaber combat."

"Shaak Ti's lightsabre movements were fluid and graceful, making the most of her enhanced spatial awareness. Few escaped her deadly swirling blade."

"Supreme Chancellor Palpatine himself officially commended Shaak Ti for her efforts and notable actions on Dagu, Geonosis and Centares. He grew to trust Shaak Ti and her abilities, keeping her as part of his inner circle of protectors during the increasing dangers of the Clone Wars."

"There is an understated elegance in Obi-Wan Kenobi's lightsaber technique, one that is quite unlike the feel one might get from the other great swordsbeings of the Jedi Order. He lacks entirely the flash, the pure bold elan of an Anakin Skywalker; there is nowhere in him the penumbral ferocity of a Mace Windu or a Depa Billaba nor the stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku, and he is nothing resembling the whirlwind of destruction that Yoda can become."

I have a very accurate assessment of Kas'im's standing - his skill with a lightsaber has been documented to greater heights than that of anybody else we've ever encountered, he performed very admirably against Bane, the Sith'ari and arguably already one of the most powerful Sith ever, he has one of the best feats of Force defence we've ever seen in blocking Bane's attack, and at the time of his death, you could make a very strong argument for him being the most dangerous close range combatant in the galaxy. He also represents one of the best users of a very effective style - lightsaber specialist with incredible Force defence, that stylistically makes him a very tough matchup for a lot of people. Shaak Ti, was nowhere near one of the top tier of her era based on the evidence, and is thoroughly outclassed.

I laughed at literally every single sentence in that paragraph. No wonder even members of the DMBE can't get aboard supporting this shit 😂

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Because I actually respect you I'll reply at some time at which I am not at work.

Thank you, I genuinely can't take Appletonia seriously when he says Kas'im's the best duelist in the history of Star Wars. Perhaps I'll appreciate your arguments more.

Originally posted by Selenial

Just because they don't fight worse doesn't mean they weren't exhausted. Compare the speed Shaak fights to later scenes, and she is much slower. Notice the fact she's defeated by Grievous' strength, not his skill, and then think back to the fact that Shaak Ti crushed the head of a magnaguard with her bare knee. She was obviously not in peak physical condition in that fight, and was noticeably less powerful than her later appearances.

She comes across as being more measured and tentative, and she has less room to move around, but she doesn't come across as slower, and the Jedi in general aren't depicted as being severely physically hindered to the extent that you might otherwise like to claim.

She's defeated by Grievous using all of attributes he brings to the table (speed, strength, skill etc.) period, and it could be that crushing the head of a MagnaGuard is simply far less impressive than competing with Grievous, from a strength standpoint regardless.

The general picture is not of a group of Jedi that were so physically hindered, that their superior skill couldn't have possibly had a way to shine through. Notice how Obi-Wan was nowhere near as fast as Grievous but was still able to rely on skill and economy and movement to combat him. Obviously Obi-Wan was probably better suited to fighting Grievous, but the point I'm making is that regardless of being physically disadvantaged, you would expect a high level swordsman to be able to put up a much better fight.

[quote]You need to analyse the fight more then. Grievous never fought more than two Jedi in an actual skill based duel, when surrounded by 4, he abused his rotary systems and waited until any of the Jedi let their guard down. Just because Shaak Ti could not save her Jedi friends does not mean she was dominated, at least during the fight with the other Jedi.

The moment I'm primarily referring to is when Grievous's attention is entirely fixed on her and he proceeds to overwhelm her pretty quickly and easily.

Except she dueled him alone for a decent period of time.

Ki-Adi dueled him alone for at least as long, and possibly far longer.

Look at the fact she wasn't out-skilled by Grievous, but was unable to match his speed and in the end his strength.

She wasn't able to match him, bringing all of his attributes to the table. Just because it looks like his strength and speed are the main factors, it doesn't mean he wasn't also fighting skillfully, and a swordsman is capable of combating superior speed and strength with superior skill as well, she just simply couldn't. It wasn't this simple contest of his strength and speed against her strength and speed like you keep on trying to make out.

In other instances she's shown a blinding speed easily capable of matching his,

Where?

later on in the show she has the Strength to break a Magnaguard's face without the need of a weapon.

Which doesn't necessarily require as much strength as being able to match Grievous's strength.

Yet here his strength was too much, and his speed to great. The only reason for this would have been her exhaustion.

Or, his overall level of ability with a lightsaber was simply too much for her overall level of ability with a lightsaber, while in a diminished state of course (that by all available evidence wasn't that diminished).

She's literally been fighting for her life for quite some time, using constant applications of Force Speed. She had just crushed a squad of the most elite non force-using fighters in the galaxy, and had chased down a transport that was far faster than any humanoid should be able to run. She'd spent a great deal of time running faster than even Bane, all the while sensing her comrade's death. By the time she gets to Grievous, she's emotionally wounded, physically drained and a wreck.

He literally says "You're tired Jedi" as well. Good lord do I need to spell it out for you even more simply than that?

Yet she was still performing some of her very best physical feats mere moments before confronting Grievous, when she had just as much reason to be tired (minus a minimal amount of time). Are you arguing that the moment of exhaustion conveniently happened just before she went to confront him?

Sure, she's emotionally wounded, but a jedi doesn't draw their energy from their physiology to the point that being emotionally wounded would have any real impact on her physical ability. A Jedi's speed/other physical abilities draw from their Force reserves, and generally haven't been portrayed as requiring any real focus to access, and is more of a function of muscle memory.

She simply rushes him, and doesn't have the strength/foresight/ability to avoid getting easily brushed aside.

How hilarious that the Comic, the Game and the Novel were all written by different people then. Starkiller in the game can unleash force lightning to levels where he eviscerates a 50 Stormtroopers, in a non cutscene. He can bend an AT-ST to it's knees, in a non cutscene. That's what the developer seems to be referring to.

He has absolutely no pull whatsoever when it comes to the Novel or the Graphic Novel, both of which we're using here, not the game.

Really? 😬

The book and comic were based off of the game and its concept; the game was the primary source and what came first in the conceptual phase. And everything about the game's depiction of the Force, whether it was explored through cutscenes or gameplay, was based off of that concept. You're being blatantly dishonest at this point.

*sigh* Could just read the ****ing respect thread, but OK:

“Shaak Ti is a Master of Makashi and Ataru forms in addition to her legendary strength in the force”

"Only the most skilled of the Order could stand against her!"

"The Jedi revere Shaak Ti as one of the highest in their order, and one of the most accomplished in Lightsaber combat."

"Shaak Ti's lightsabre movements were fluid and graceful, making the most of her enhanced spatial awareness. Few escaped her deadly swirling blade."

"Supreme Chancellor Palpatine himself officially commended Shaak Ti for her efforts and notable actions on Dagu, Geonosis and Centares. He grew to trust Shaak Ti and her abilities, keeping her as part of his inner circle of protectors during the increasing dangers of the Clone Wars."

"There is an understated elegance in Obi-Wan Kenobi's lightsaber technique, one that is quite unlike the feel one might get from the other great swordsbeings of the Jedi Order. He lacks entirely the flash, the pure bold elan of an Anakin Skywalker; there is nowhere in him the penumbral ferocity of a Mace Windu or a Depa Billaba nor the stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku, and he is nothing resembling the whirlwind of destruction that Yoda can become."

All unsubstantiated, and hardly painting a picture of one of the very best ever, like you claimed.

Shaak ti

Even accepting TFU for a moment, how powerful exactly was Starkiller around the time he fought her?

Not sure why people are dismissing Bane's feat of destroying the Rakatan temple, ad Kas'im's feat of defending against a portion of the attack in any event, but I wouldn't be surprised if Bane and Starkiller were possibly around the same level at the time of those fights.

Originally posted by appletonia
She comes across as being more measured and tentative, and she has less room to move around, but she doesn't come across as slower, and the Jedi in general aren't depicted as being severely physically hindered to the extent that you might otherwise like to claim.

She's defeated by Grievous using all of attributes he brings to the table (speed, strength, skill etc.) period, and it could be that crushing the head of a MagnaGuard is simply far less impressive than competing with Grievous, from a strength standpoint regardless.

The general picture is not of a group of Jedi that were so physically hindered, that their superior skill couldn't have possibly had a way to shine through. Notice how Obi-Wan was nowhere near as fast as Grievous but was still able to rely on skill and economy and movement to combat him. Obviously Obi-Wan was probably better suited to fighting Grievous, but the point I'm making is that regardless of being physically disadvantaged, you would expect a high level swordsman to be able to put up a much better fight.

The general picture? Rofl.

- Ki Adi Mundi's robes are torn apart.
- Shaak Ti is meditating to conserve strength when he walks in
- K'kruhk is panting like an asthmatic smoker who's just ran a marathon.
- Aayla is in the corner clutching her arm in pain
- Aayla and Shaak Ti's robes are also in tatters.

All of the above indicate they've been fighting for a long time, and are all exhausted.

The moment I'm primarily referring to is when Grievous's attention is entirely fixed on her and he proceeds to overwhelm her pretty quickly and easily.
Ki-Adi dueled him alone for at least as long, and possibly far longer.
She wasn't able to match him, bringing all of his attributes to the table. Just because it looks like his strength and speed are the main factors, it doesn't mean he wasn't also fighting skillfully, and a swordsman is capable of combating superior speed and strength with superior skill as well, she just simply couldn't. It wasn't this simple contest of his strength and speed against her strength and speed like you keep on trying to make out.

"If you are to succeed in combat against the best of the Jedi, you must have fear, surprise and intimidation on your side. If any of these things are lacking, it would be best to retreat. You must break them before you engage them
- Count Dooku, to Grievous.

And yes, Shaak Ti is one of the best of the Jedi, as you've just been shown.

Where?

Compare these two instances.

and

And note how much more conservative Shaak Ti is with her energy in the first engagement. Yet more proof she was tired from the battle.

Or, his overall level of ability with a lightsaber was simply too much for her overall level of ability with a lightsaber, while in a diminished state of course (that by all available evidence wasn't that diminished).

When the way he defeats her is overpowering her so much she flies into rubble and shatters it? Yeh no.

Yet she was still performing some of her very best physical feats mere moments before confronting Grievous, when she had just as much reason to be tired (minus a minimal amount of time). Are you arguing that the moment of exhaustion conveniently happened just before she went to confront him?

Sure, she's emotionally wounded, but a jedi doesn't draw their energy from their physiology to the point that being emotionally wounded would have any real impact on her physical ability. A Jedi's speed/other physical abilities draw from their Force reserves, and generally haven't been portrayed as requiring any real focus to access, and is more of a function of muscle memory.

She simply rushes him, and doesn't have the strength/foresight/ability to avoid getting easily brushed aside.

"Grievous knows he will be facing many Jedi Knights during the Clone Wars and trains his MagnaGuards in dueling techniques that allow them to gang up on a single target. Backup systems allow MagnaGuards to keep fighting even after they lose a limb. While Grievous doesn't expect his MagnaGuards to be able to kill every Jedi who challenges them, he knows his bodyguard screen will exhaust most attackers and leave them vulnerable to a finishing blow delivered by the General himself."

- Ultimate Star Wars, p242.

Please educate yourself on lore before bothering to log into this website again, it might help you just a little.

It is quite obvious that she expended the last of her energy in an attempt to catch up with them. Please stop ignoring canon information ("you are tired Jedi"😉 in an attempt to belittle a character, simply because you're embarrassed that Kas'im can't stand up to her.

Really? 😬

The book and comic were based off of the game and its concept; the game was the primary source and what came first in the conceptual phase. And everything about the game's depiction of the Force, whether it was explored through cutscenes or gameplay, was based off of that concept. You're being blatantly dishonest at this point.

"Impressive reflexes," said Master Satele, to all appearances unconcerned by the possibility that Ax might have cut her in half. She hadn't even activated her own lightsaber. "Your peripheral vision could use some work, though. I've been on your tail ever since you landed."

^^ That quote right there somehow has more relevance to this debate than your pathetic attempts to get rid of a source you dislike. That's quite an impressive feat on your end, you really are the definition of "The bottom of the barrel" when it comes to debating, aren't you.

Not once have you come up with a single argument for Kas'im, because you can't, you're literally just trying to make her seem like a pathetic excuse for a Jedi. You're doing a terrible job of it at that.

All unsubstantiated, and hardly painting a picture of one of the very best ever, like you claimed.

Again with the "your sourcebooks are wrong my opinion is superior to them so there" bull shit. It's genuinely hilarious at this stage mmm

Might start profiling this actually.

Oh and Side Note, being up there with the likes of Mace Windu, Yoda, Dooku and Anakin Skywalker is the same as being one of the best in history.

Originally posted by Selenial
The general picture? Rofl.

- Ki Adi Mundi's robes are torn apart.
- Shaak Ti is meditating to conserve strength when he walks in
- K'kruhk is panting like an asthmatic smoker who's just ran a marathon.
- Aayla is in the corner clutching her arm in pain
- Aayla and Shaak Ti's robes are also in tatters.

All of the above indicate they've been fighting for a long time, and are all exhausted.

That's when they're not in a battle state and will show signs of exhaustion. When fighting, they didn't come across as overly hampered.

Again, tiredness. If she is able to perfectly match his skill or better, but is severely outmatched in strength and speed, she can't do anything.

"If you are to succeed in combat against the best of the Jedi, you must have fear, surprise and intimidation on your side. If any of these things are lacking, it would be best to retreat. You must break them before you engage them
- Count Dooku, to Grievous.

And yes, Shaak Ti is one of the best of the Jedi, as you've just been shown.

The very best Jedi usually don't break, and not really sure the relevance of this anyhow.

Compare these two instances.

and

And note how much more conservative Shaak Ti is with her energy in the first engagement. Yet more proof she was tired from the battle.

Doesn't seem to be a huge disparity, she seems more free to mvoe around against the MagnaGaurds then she is with Grievous. As I said she was more tentative than anything else.

When the way he defeats her is overpowering her so much she flies into rubble and shatters it? Yeh no.

That final attack didn't simply happen independently of the swordplay that preceeded it.

"Grievous knows he will be facing many Jedi Knights during the Clone Wars and trains his MagnaGuards in dueling techniques that allow them to gang up on a single target. Backup systems allow MagnaGuards to keep fighting even after they lose a limb. While Grievous doesn't expect his MagnaGuards to be able to kill every Jedi who challenges them, he knows his bodyguard screen will exhaust most attackers and leave them vulnerable to a finishing blow delivered by the General himself."

- Ultimate Star Wars, p242.

Please educate yourself on lore before bothering to log into this website again, it might help you just a little.

It is quite obvious that she expended the last of her energy in an attempt to catch up with them. Please stop ignoring canon information ("you are tired Jedi"😉 in an attempt to belittle a character, simply because you're embarrassed that Kas'im can't stand up to her.

The quote in context would have been nice.

That might have been a general strategy employed by Grievous with the MagnaGuards, but it doesn't mean that was the strategy being used in this instance (they were primarily a distraction - Palpatine was the target, not Shaak Ti), or that it worked.

Grievous likes to taunt and demoralize people in general, and I'm not denying she would have been tired, I'm questioning the extent.

"Impressive reflexes," said Master Satele, to all appearances unconcerned by the possibility that Ax might have cut her in half. She hadn't even activated her own lightsaber. "Your peripheral vision could use some work, though. I've been on your tail ever since you landed."

Thanks for the spoiler for a book I'm currently reading!

^^ That quote right there somehow has more relevance to this debate than your pathetic attempts to get rid of a source you dislike. That's quite an impressive feat on your end, you really are the definition of "The bottom of the barrel" when it comes to debating, aren't you.

Not once have you come up with a single argument for Kas'im, because you can't, you're literally just trying to make her seem like a pathetic excuse for a Jedi. You're doing a terrible job of it at that.

I already have, you're just ignoring the implications of his ability to protect himself from Bane's attack, and the heights he took his mastery of the lightsaber to, or the fact that by his death there probably wasn't a single person in the Galaxy that could defeat him in a fair fight.

Again with the "your sourcebooks are wrong my opinion is superior to them so there" bull shit. It's genuinely hilarious at this stage mmm

Might start profiling this actually.

So you're not going to substantiate them?

Oh and Side Note, being up there with the likes of Mace Windu, Yoda, Dooku and Anakin Skywalker is the same as being one of the best in history.

You still haven't substantiated what being one of the best in history actually means, and that she's on that level is entirely unproven.

@appletonia While I don't agree with most of what you post, I respect the fact that you have some common decency and I would like to thank you for not compulsively spamming disturbing ass pictures all over the forum and making a complete ass of yourself dozens upon dozens of times just for the attention.

Originally posted by Selenial
And no, The Force Unleashed wasn't "designed to show a highly exaggerated version of what Jedi were capable of,". That's merely an excuse for people who don't enjoy the idea of Starkiller actually being a very powerful Force wielder. Whether I agree with how hilariously they wanked him in it or not is irrelevant, it's a source and you can't simply dismiss it because you don't like it.

I don't understand how anyone can type out the name of that game and still make this argument afterwards with sincerity. It just baffles me.

It isn't merely an excuse, it's a fact. You calling it such is merely a dismissal of a viewpoint you dislike, without accounting for the truth of the matter.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't understand how anyone can type out the name of that game and still make this argument afterwards with sincerity. It just baffles me.

Firstly, novel.

Secondly, nothing about it stretches any canon whatsoever. Vader and Palpatine do in that book exactly what they could do in Legends. The only argument for the book being overblown is again, people disliking Galen Marek.

The game is the primary material.

It. Is. Literally. Called. The. Force. Unleashed. How much clearer than that does it need to be? The game's entire concept is based on amping up the Force to absurd heights. That is literally what the entire ****ing franchise is about.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The game is the primary material.

It. Is. Literally. Called. The. Force. Unleashed. How much clearer than that does it need to be? The game's entire concept is based on amping up the Force to absurd heights. That is literally what the entire ****ing franchise is about.

And how can you categorically say the way they do that isn't just focusing on the most powerful characters of the era? Showing the player or reader what the Force does in the hands of masters? Like what does the game really actually show that occurs nowhere else in the mythos 😬

If SWTOR only showed Darth Marr, Barsen'thor, the Hero of Tython, Vitiate, Malgus, Satele and Revan, would you be tooting the same horn?

Why am I even asking that question, of course you wouldn't.

Because as you already pointed out, those character's already existed prior to TFU. So that doesn't fit with the concept of showing the Force in a new light. If the game were merely showing the characters at the level that already existed then it wouldn't be amping anything up. That's an utterly tone-deaf, willfully ignorant interpretation.

Of course not, because literally the entire point of Swtor isn't to exaggerate the Force to levels that dampen teenage boys pants. Swtor didn't release their first trailer entirely as a guy pulling a Star Destroyer to the ground to get the point across about what the game's concept was. It doesn't have the lead developer gush about exaggerating the Force. It isn't literally called the Force Unleashed.

Not sure why Hayden Blackman's opinion on the subject matters to Neph, who has made it abundantly clear that author intent means nothing when he dislikes itdoesn't matter at all.

Anyway, Ti beats dat ass, frankly. 😬

Not sure why Tempest's opinion on the subject matters to anyone, who has made it abundantly clear that he's nothing more than a salty old bottom-ass b*tch.

More like:

Tempest.img

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because as you already pointed out, those character's already existed prior to TFU. So that doesn't fit with the concept of showing the Force in a new light. If the game were merely showing the characters at the level that already existed then it wouldn't be amping anything up. That's an utterly tone-deaf, willfully ignorant interpretation.

Of course not, because literally the entire point of Swtor isn't to exaggerate the Force to levels that dampen teenage boys pants. Swtor didn't release their first trailer entirely as a guy pulling a Star Destroyer to the ground to get the point across about what the game's concept was. It doesn't have the lead developer gush about exaggerating the Force. It isn't literally called the Force Unleashed.

So if characters who existed before The Force Unleashed are somehow exempt from this rule, then why isn't Shaak Ti? Either way, the argument that someone wanting to show the force at it's maximum potential invalidates the feat is ludicrous. Why does it matter if the writer wanted to show the Force properly unleashed in a powerful protagonist? That's his choice, it doesn't make the character more less powerful than he is actually shown in the game.

So somehow SWTOR is less exaggeration when it has a supposedly immortal Sith Emperor running around the stage eating planets? Please.

Another example of course is Knights of the Old Republic 2. Chris Avellone thought the ancient Sith could move planets with their abilities and believed them infinitely more powerful than actual sourcebooks would suggest. Just because he believes that doesn't mean "His view of canon is distorted so everyone in KOTOR 2 must be weaker than it's shown in that game."

And to reiterate since apparently you must be told things more than three times, the Novel isn't anywhere near as ridiculous as the game. Not even close. The game is "hyping up the force" or making it out at "absurd" levels in the mechanics where Galen can one shot an AT-ST. In the cutscenes the power levels are normal.

At the end of the day, everything in that game that we see as Canon went through the Lucasarts Story Board, and even George Lucas himself. You cannot call it irrelevant because you do not like it. ****ing grow a pair and deal with it.