Originally posted by ILS
And likewise Windu would have taken wins in sparring against Dooku, logically. Dooku isn't Yoda's peer, he's his lesser. But I'm not denying he's a better duelist than Ulic, simply questioning the power gap.
Uh, no.
"The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible—wickedness cut in red light."
"Master Windu himself remained perfectly balanced and centered. In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective."
There's no evidence for Mace ever beating Dooku, only Dooku beating Mace.
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Wouldn't call Yoda having to exert some unknown and vague amount of effort with Dooku fighting on par with YodaOr do you mean purely dueling where gaps are generally smaller?
Sources would disagree.
"The two Force warriors attempted to defeat each other with displays of telekinesis and other Force abilities, but they were too evenly matched."
"The two engaged in a titanic struggle of Force powers, neither besting the other."
"Count Dooku and Master Yoda engaging in a titanic struggle of Force powers on Geonosis."
While Tyranus' retreat suggests he'd have lost if the battle persisted, at the very least Yoda needs to go all out to deal with Tyranus.
Stark; no, it's never been said that Mace has beaten Dooku, but I just find it to be fairly logical that he would have at points over the decades. They sparred extensively and most sources regard them as peers; the source you've presented isn't saying Dooku is better, just that he is one of two people who have ever beaten Mace in a duel at any point. I find it hard to believe Mace has never beaten Dooku in a spar.
Yoda didn't even attack Dooku directly with anything other than his own lightning, dude. Taking those sources at face value instead of just evaluating what happened - Dooku losing clearly - isn't going to get you an accurate result. If we go with your theory then Sidious, Yoda's near-equal, has no business casually choking Dooku from across star systems, but he has.
Originally posted by ILS
And likewise Windu would have taken wins in sparring against Dooku, logically. Dooku isn't Yoda's peer, he's his lesser. But I'm not denying he's a better duelist than Ulic, simply questioning the power gap.
Perhaps Cart is serious about a gaping difference between Kun and Dooku.
How big would you say the gap is between Ulic and Dooku? And how effective do you think the amulet blasts would be? I mean, Kun's best off nexus blast only rendered Aleema unconscious despite, by his own admission, going for the kill. Doesn't seem too much more powerful than Dooku's lightning, except Dooku wasn't going for the kill when he rendered Anakin and Bulq unconscious.
Originally posted by ILS
Yoda didn't even attack Dooku directly with anything other than his own lightning, dude. Taking those sources at face value instead of just evaluating what happened - Dooku losing clearly - isn't going to get you an accurate result. If we go with your theory then Sidious, Yoda's near-equal, has no business casually choking Dooku from across star systems, but he has.
To add to this?
Yoda has no business containing several seconds of Sidious' Lightning if Dooku has any parity with Yoda
Or match the KE of Sidious' TK
Being able to contain any kind of burst at all or matching any throw from Sidious is so far above Dooku the notion Yoda and he are peers is pure comedy.
The circular bit of logic is kind of headache inducing tbh
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66I don't really want to get into it if it's alright with you, the ancient Sith take a bit of explaining... as for Aleema, I don't remember a source ever saying that Kun was trying to kill her, and he certainly seemed nonchalant about the blast.
Perhaps Cart is serious about a gaping difference between Kun and Dooku.How big would you say the gap is between Ulic and Dooku? And how effective do you think the amulet blasts would be? I mean, Kun's best off nexus blast only rendered Aleema unconscious despite, by his own admission, going for the kill. Doesn't seem too much more powerful than Dooku's lightning, except Dooku wasn't going for the kill when he rendered Anakin and Bulq unconscious.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4292464-force+blast+aleema.png
Otherwise, it's just a good feat for her.. I mean with a bit of scaling involved the level of power you can take away from Exar's feat of blasting apart the Sith Wyrm and the temple (accounting for both the nexus and that Kun was pretty far off of his prime), is astonishing, and more than Dooku's lightning can produce.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, Ulic and Kun obviously aren't peers in power.
Not particularly obvious when Qel-Droma's feats as a Jedi shit on Kun's
Kun just benefits from being called greater by Nadd
Is there a gap?
Sure
Is it unexplored in ways we can quantify?
Yep
Do both benefit from other Jedi showings as both Jedi and Sith via accolades
Another yes
I know Kun's more powerful, just trying to define the gap with any context we possess in TotJ is kind of difficult. Definitely is from my normal school of thought. Curious what yours comes up with.
Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm talking about them in their primes as Sith Lords. At that point, they're obviously not peers or near-equals. The fact that there's a gap at all just proves my point. I'm not saying the gap is huge or anything.
Suppose how I use the term "peer" is a bit more loose than you do
Hence the original disconnect on my part
I'd generally consider a pair of ****ers with an unquantifiable gap in power peers on account of nothing presented evidence wise being able to suggest the fight wouldn't be one worth watching is all
Originally posted by carthage
I also never stated I hate Dooku, I just have him beneath Exar and (arguably) Malgus.
Oh my, Cart. Have I been gone that long? It was a joke at your occasional jabs at Dooku's lightning (lowballing it). I had also looked up the Dark Disciple thread to see the opinions of others regarding the book, which including a remark from you about the romance of the book. Why are you being so serious?
@ILS
That's fine. I wasn't looking for a debate (if that's what you're thinking), just something that may change my opinion, especially in regards to the blasts, as I don't see that as a solid game changer the way most people do, nor do I see it as more effective than Dooku's lightning when comparing their respective attacks on actual powerful force users. I guess I'll just research more on it whenever.
And oh, I was thinking Kun mentioned being there to kill them either before of upon arrival. I may be wrong.
