Obama and Jobs, by the Numbers

Started by psmith819927 pages

the home ownership is at a 25 year low (after a housing bubble)

Which is continuing on Obama's watch. I gave you unemployment statistics to show what they were at Bush's peak, which, by the numbers, were better than current Obama numbers. That's not to say he was a better president, of course.

it's starting to look very much like he'll be one of the best presidents

I don't think he'll be one of the best presidents by any stretch. His overall numbers are less than those of Reagan and Clinton and close to H.W. He will be considered a good one but there's always obstructionism when parties are divided, Obama is no exception.

Originally posted by psmith81992

The above link is what I think TI has been talking about in terms of government growth.

Did you read that link?

Obama Dec. 2012 21,925 315,255 6.9%
GWBush Dec. 2008 22,555 306,004 7.4%
Clinton Dec. 2000 20,804 283,696 7.3%
G Bush Dec. 1992 18,878 258,413 7.3%
Reagan Dec. 1988 17,736 246,056 7.2%

Look at the number on the right. That's the percentage of government employees per capita in the US. Look at the number in the middle column, that's the number of government employees- and it's rawly lower than under GWB.

It literally says Obama has a smaller government-to-population ratio than Reagan and smaller total than George W. Bush. It says we need more government hirees, honestly, because under Obama we have not been keeping up with population growth.


Also look at Bush unemployment numbers from 2005-2008

Ok, I'll do so. And I note that it's been going down consistently under Obama once he staunched the economic bleeding.

This is a graph that combines the Bush unemployment numbers with the Obama ones, with a line with the changeover, so you can see where they go up and down:

It is from an article from 2013, so we're notably better now, but we'd clearly been going down for about three years by that point.


Here's another:
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014...resident-obama/

This one says we're doing better in most areas but there's still some we lag in- including some that the op article notes we are improving in, just slowly.

Or in other words, what I've been saying.


Here are two others that I haven't fully looked at but will

They're opinion pieces which are honestly pretty dumb, and draw their conclusions by blaming Obama for the Great Recession (the thing that started before he took office). The first one tries to blame the low-growth in Obama's first term- you know, when Obama stepped in on an economy in freefall in dire need of stabilization- on his policies somhow.

The second one is basically just saying that Reagan had heathier economic growth than Obama. Which is true, but he also didn't have a worldwide financial collapse of the same scale.

Fact is while Obama has done better than W, you're being an apologist for all he got wrong.

Which is.... what?

When I asked about what you specifically mean by 'making things worse for the first five years,' you instead posted links to stuff I specifically brought up and addressed- and in some cases were just flat-out the reverse of what you and Time are saying.

The same actions that raised the debt lowered the unemployment, of which I give credit and blame on both sides. The reason welfare is high is because of the unemployment and other effects of the crash- all of which, it is noted, are something eventually solved by economic growth and jobs and wage growth, but not quickly, and as the original article of the thread points out he has been doing positively in.

Where's this 5 years of making things worse you're talking about? What things did he do that didn't help? How did he make things worse? You can't just make accusations and then when called on them try and deflect onto other topics- especially not when I've already addressed all of your deflections.

You are not saying what Obama did wrong beyond the stuff I've already talked about the pros and cons of, merely that I am apologizing for it. That's BS, Psmith.

You cannot keep up this beat-around-the-bush, accusing others of not holding Obama accountable for (mumblemumble) stuff when I specifically have talked about every single point you've brought up and responded with data, and posting stuff I've already done that with is just stalling.

And rule of thumb, posting stuff that agrees with me rarely helps if you are trying to disagree with me.

It is from an article from 2013, so we're notably better now, but we'd clearly been going down for about three years by that point.

All I did was point you to where it shows Bush's peak unemployment numbers compared to Obama's.

When I asked about what you specifically mean by 'making things worse for the first five years,' you instead posted links to stuff I specifically brought up and addressed- and in some cases were just flat-out the reverse of what you and Time are saying.

I've brought up most of the things that were true, such as lower median incomes, higher federal debt, etc. The only response I got was, "Obama had to deal with Bush's crisis."

You cannot keep up this beat-around-the-bush, accusing others of not holding Obama accountable for (mumblemumble) stuff when I specifically have talked about every single point you've brought up and responded with data, and posting stuff I've already done that with is just stalling.

And rule of thumb, posting stuff that agrees with me rarely helps if you are trying to disagree with me.


The only thing that agreed with you were the government employee numbers and I wasn't saying you were wrong, I was posting what I thought TI was arguing (incorrectly). Everything else you've tried to spin in a positive light. Even the negatives have all been "well it's because of the recession but getting better!"

Originally posted by jaden101
TI is for child labour and having people work until they die. Because Trump told him to.

Well we do have a nice rich history of forcing children to do horrible jobs:

http://www.cracked.com/article_18565_the-6-worst-jobs-ever-were-done-by-children.html

Here I was thinking the kids from "Newsies" had it rough.

Originally posted by psmith81992
All I did was point you to where it shows Bush's peak unemployment numbers compared to Obama's.

so basically you're deliberately being deceptive, or else you would have accounted for the start of the recession (pre-obama).
instead you just peddle a baseless raw number as proof because apparently you think you're cute.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
so basically you're deliberately being deceptive, or else you would have accounted for the start of the recession (pre-obama).
instead you just peddle a baseless raw number as proof because apparently you think you're cute.

Oh I see so you didn't read anything other than what supports your bias, correct? And in case you missed the argument (as you usually do), we are constantly arguing giving credit/blame regarding what happens on whose watch. Let the adults continue now 😂

Originally posted by psmith81992
Oh I see so you didn't read anything other than what supports your bias, correct? And in case you missed the argument (as you usually do), we are constantly arguing giving credit/blame regarding what happens on whose watch. Let the adults continue now 😂

nah, it's just you manipulating raw data to push a flatout lie. that's really all that is happening here. but feel free to get more buttmad and make this about me...even though you're the one being snake-like.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
nah, it's just you manipulating raw data to push a flatout lie. that's really all that is happening here. but feel free to get more buttmad and make this about me...even though you're the one being snake-like.

Mhm.. "Manipulating" data now. That's quite amusing. Good show.

Right, avoid the point about when the crisis started. Very mature. 👆

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
Right, avoid the point about when the crisis started. Very mature. 👆

Right, so Bush was responsible for the financial crisis but we should just ignore what he did before that, great point 👆

Before the financial crisis he built up to creating the financial crisis. Like he didn't just drop the ball one day, the guy was a moron 8 years straight.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Right, so Bush was responsible for the financial crisis but we should just ignore what he did before that, great point 👆

you're trying to paint obama as having caused the crisis, because you're proud to be a lying snake. that's the sum total of what's going on here. that and you being the 'last word guy'

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
you're trying to paint obama as having caused the crisis, because you're proud to be a lying snake. that's the sum total of what's going on here. that and you being the 'last word guy'

How am I trying to paint Obama as having caused the financial crisis? That has to be one of the dumbest things ever said on here. Congratulations on being both emotional and incredibly biased to the point where you have to make things up 👆

Before the financial crisis he built up to creating the financial crisis. Like he didn't just drop the ball one day, the guy was a moron 8 years straight.

Sure, but numbers don't lie.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Before the financial crisis he built up to creating the financial crisis. Like he didn't just drop the ball one day, the guy was a moron 8 years straight.

Well yeah, financial crisis rarely happen overnight, it's a long buildup to the crash, just as the recovery to said crisis doesn't happen overnight.

Originally posted by psmith81992
How am I trying to paint Obama as having caused the financial crisis? That has to be one of the dumbest things ever said on here. Congratulations on being both emotional and incredibly biased to the point where you have to make things up 👆

Sure, but numbers don't lie.

are you deliberately avoiding the point of what you were attempting, or are you just simple?

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
are you deliberately avoiding the point of what you're attempting, or are you just simple?

Your incompetence seems to be consistent all day. Aside from crying about something, making stuff up and then claiming I'm the last word guy when you keep responding with utter nonsense, I'm not really sure why you're posting at all. Trolling maybe?

Originally posted by psmith81992

Sure, but numbers don't lie.

Well, numbers themselves may not lie, but people use numbers to lie all the time...

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, numbers themselves may not lie, but people use numbers to lie all the time...

Sure. But the numbers show that Bush kept the numbers pretty good (better than current Obama but without needing a recovery) up until he didn't. So the last year of his presidency. Doesn't make him a better president.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Your incompetence seems to be consistent all day. Aside from crying about something, making stuff up and then claiming I'm the last word guy when you keep responding with utter nonsense, I'm not really sure why you're posting at all. Trolling maybe?

aaaand there it is. remember kids, when you are caught spreading falsehoods and asserting nonesense, simply accuse your opponent of "trolling" and shift the topic to what a doodoo-head they are. baby

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
aaaand there it is. remember kids, when you are caught spreading falsehoods and asserting nonesense, simply accuse your opponent of "trolling". baby

Well, after all of those posts making stuff up and throwing out hilarious false accusations, this is a last desperation post. Great show 👆 😂