Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
So you're saying that, no matter how good the argument, Qui Gon Jinn can't be inferior to Vrook?
Hmm, no not entirely. I'm sensible and open to all debates.
But bias isn't something that really matters to me, it's more less the over-rating of Vrook and the addition of his non-canonical feats that bother me.
Have I used said feats in the past? Yes with Jaden and Alora... when I was relatively new to debating, not anymore.
You can be biased to an era, or have a favorite character among them, and still be able to make a valid point for them.
But Vrook has nothing canonical to showcase in this regard. Add to this Nova's intent to regard Vrook as a master of several forms when his form is very much dependent on game mechanics and we go back to the same debate he and I had on Shaak vs Meetra.
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. The facts are the feats, which I've given you. The thing is, you keep trying to worm your way out of the facts with excuses, and it's getting frustrating.2. Your indelible stance on certain characters means it'll be virtually impossible to persuade you that they'd lose a fight to another being of their class that you have less preference for, so I believe I'm wasting my time here.
3. I have Qui-Gon's main feats in my RT, lol. Also, I didn't give you rights to my RT itself, I just gave you permission to use my content and make your own.
4. You lacked an argument on Force Forms, so that's a concession, and it's accepted.
1 - Okay fine, I'm stuck in traffic. Here are the facts.
Vrook has shown no difference in power in the LS path or DS path.
Yes he has, he's dueled the Jedi Exile who by now has bested Zez, stalemated Sion and learned Drain. He's able to TK a party of three which he's never done in canon at all.
And lets take a moment here. Let's pretend I accept this feat.
It still doesn't change that the Exile had just fought several mercs and kinrath prior to this. So Vrook fought someone who had just come out of combat.
Vrook paralyzed the Exile!!?
Yeah... in the LS path... where she offered no resistance.. at all.
Also DS path? He died.
He helped rebuild the Enclave?
Coolio, he had help from others, perhaps they banded together to assist one another, perhaps they needed concentration, perhaps they struggled.
Impressive feat, no context to it.
He's mastered various force forms?
Show me, exactly where it say he mastered them.
Show me how that's relevant to a fight with QGJ's saber mastery?
Vrooks shown himself to be a bullrusher fighter by fighting Mercs and rushing to assist the Exile, he does this here and force combat won't even matter.
Ah but that seems like I'm just glancing at it, his force forms aren't really anything special, one will drain his power quickly and leave him exhausted, the other is too conservative and will only assist him in rejuvenating his force reserves...while under the onslaught of QGJ. And this is all assuming he even knows them.
My stance isn't permanent, I think quite a number of characters could best Qui-Gon, not Vrook. Just because I don't think YOUR character could beat QGJ doesn't mean I don't think others can, that is your assumption, not fact.
I don't hate Vrook, I dislike your insipid use of N-canon feats or vague feats, and how you pass them along as "facts" when it's not at all the case. KoTOR 2 is among my favorite games, I've talked with Sinious about it several times, even on occasion i(used to) speak with Sas and Skillz about it. Your assumption of me isn't fact.
I've nothing against you, your stance on DS canon and LS canon paths conflicts with how things on the true path were done. That's it.
Also, no thanks, I always go through all sources myself.