Originally posted by cdtmWhy's gay marriage legal now? Because of the constitution? Or because the public finally started demanding it?
Neither. It's legal now because one Anthony Kennedy overstepped his actual authority to essentially create a new law that was in opposition to the will of the majority of Americans -- at least according to the actual VOTING records of people in this country. There was nothing particularly constitutional OR democratic about what happened last year.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Neither. It's legal now because one Anthony Kennedy overstepped his actual authority to essentially create a new law that was in opposition to the will of the majority of Americans -- at least according to the actual VOTING records of people in this country. There was nothing particularly constitutional OR democratic about what happened last year.
You know, the constitution was set up specifically to prevent a tyranny-of-the-majority. It's very constitutional to make rulings on that ground, and none of the courts who ruled on it before the SC got around to it overstepped their bounds.
This is no different than the ruling that interracial marriage is legal- one of over a dozen supreme court rulings that established marriage as a right.
The majority of Americans are in favor of gay marriage- a pretty solid majority, even, but that's neither here nor there. The Supreme Court exists, in part, to prevent an injustice from standing just because it's a popular one, and this is very explicit in the Constitution. When the interracial ruling was made, the majority of Americans were against it. It was still the right call, just like this one, and it was very much within the Supreme Court's authority.
Disliking a ruling doesn't make it overstepping the bounds, and it devalues complaints to pretend every ruling one doesn't like is some unprecedented breach of authority. The Supreme Court exists to make rulings on things like that, on cases where there is a dispute and it affects the rights of Americans.
And, in the end, they sided on the side of granting more Americans the same civil rights. Not a shock, really.
Maybe if blacks from the ghetto stop acting like tough guys or thugs and educate themselves like Obama did, then the mentality of other American ethnicities will stop generalizing them into a group of stereotype. They need to stop acting like immature, whiny brats and integrate with society. Some of you stop acting like it's not their fault in the first place. When police tell them to drop their weapon, do what they say. Follow the authorities and there's a 90% chance they won't kill/shoot you. Resisting arrest will only make the situation worse. And like prevously stated, cop shooting at innocents also happen to any other race. Probably more than blacks. And it's mostly because these idiots resist arrest.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygonNope statistically the average black male is more likely to be shot by a police officer than any other race
Maybe if blacks from the ghetto stop acting like tough guys or thugs and educate themselves like Obama did, then the mentality of other American ethnicities will stop generalizing them into a group of stereotype. They need to stop acting like immature, whiny brats and integrate with society. Some of you stop acting like it's not their fault in the first place. When police tell them to drop their weapon, do what they say. Follow the authorities and there's a 90% chance they won't kill/shoot you. Resisting arrest will only make the situation worse. And like prevously stated, cop shooting at innocents also happen to any other race. Probably more than blacks. And it's mostly because these idiots resist arrest.
Yeah, that makes zero sense. There were 776 police killings, nationally, in 2015.
By contrast, Chicago, alone, had 484 murders last year. If you add just Baltimore and Detroit you'd be at 1,000 homicides, and then there's my hometown of Oakland to toss into the mix, and Memphis, and Los Angeles, etc.
Unless that statistic is accounting for the fact that there's far less police officers employed in the US (1.1M) versus my people (41.7M), then yeah, due to the lower volume of police the percentage would be skewed to police while the volume and frequency certainly would not.
Nah. The issue is cultural more than anything, and simply throwing more law enforcement at it is actually counterproductive, though that might seem counter-intuitive. There's a pariah culture that breeds in the hood. There's a segment of people here that think they are universally despised and discriminated against without just cause, and that preconceived notion of their character, in their eyes, legitimizes their poor behavior ("Ya'll don't give a f*ck about me and mine here in _____, so I don't give a f*ck about anyone or anything either."😉. I've witnessed it firsthand. Luckily, however, I came from a household which didn't play that shit and stressed the importance of education, personal responsibility, and work ethic (In it, but not of it). Once you fall into the victim/victimize mindset it snowballs. It's a combination of the despair of being disenfranchised, but a degree of cognitive dissonance regarding the part an individual plays in their own disenfranchisement, like signalling defeat before you even try because the system is against you anyway, so you eschew taking a legitimate course of action because you feel it doesn't matter and are fated to fail anyway, but then play the victim when that poor choice blows up in your face and you end up at the wrong side of the law, and also don't take into account how your poor choices make the environment you occupy more dangerous for the other people who live there as well and who don't share your nihilistic mentality. I can tell you straight up that the majority of people out here on 98th and E.14 don't want to live like they're living, but there are also those that revel in the chaos and in turn the whole community is viewed through that extreme, which continues the cycle. The cure has to come from within these households though. The environment is going to keep churning out broken people until the people who don't want to live like that stand up to the people who don't give a f*ck.
Originally posted by MF DELPH
Nah. The issue is cultural more than anything, and simply throwing more law enforcement at it is actually counterproductive, though that might seem counter-intuitive. There's a pariah culture that breeds in the hood. There's a segment of people here that think they are universally despised and discriminated against without just cause, and that preconceived notion of their character, in their eyes, legitimizes their poor behavior ("Ya'll don't give a f*ck about me and mine here in _____, so I don't give a f*ck about anyone or anything either."😉. I've witnessed it firsthand. Luckily, however, I came from a household which didn't play that shit and stressed the importance of education, personal responsibility, and work ethic (In it, but not of it). Once you fall into the victim/victimize mindset it snowballs. It's a combination of the despair of being disenfranchised, but a degree of cognitive dissonance regarding the part an individual plays in their own disenfranchisement, like signalling defeat before you even try because the system is against you anyway, so you eschew taking a legitimate course of action because you feel it doesn't matter and are fated to fail anyway, but then play the victim when that poor choice blows up in your face and you end up at the wrong side of the law, and also don't take into account how your poor choices make the environment you occupy more dangerous for the other people who live there as well and who don't share your nihilistic mentality. I can tell you straight up that the majority of people out here on 98th and E.14 don't want to live like they're living, but there are also those that revel in the chaos and in turn the whole community is viewed through that extreme, which continues the cycle. The cure has to come from within these households though. The environment is going to keep churning out broken people until the people who don't want to live like that stand up to the people who don't give a f*ck.
It all starts with the people in the community. When people start changing their ways, things will start to change for the better. It doesn't matter what skin color you have, or where you come from. Something has to be done about family values education.
Originally posted by Astner
Just fill the ghettos with patrolling military squads and give them right frisk anyone they deem suspicious and to take the life of any armed or threatening delinquent. Problem solved.A Glock and a bandanna is not going to help you much against a trained and armored corporal with a semiautomatic.
Unfortunately I can see the opposite happening.
Bringing the military in to patrol one ethnic community would entice that entire neighbourhood to join together & fight back.
The gangs would unite & church & community leaders will have every right to point out in the media the racial undertones of the military patrolling their streets.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Maybe if blacks from the ghetto stop acting like tough guys or thugs and educate themselves like Obama did, then the mentality of other American ethnicities will stop generalizing them into a group of stereotype. They need to stop acting like immature, whiny brats and integrate with society. Some of you stop acting like it's not their fault in the first place. When police tell them to drop their weapon, do what they say.
I do wanna mention that requires access to good education and such. It's hard to get out of a situation in cramp, underfunded schools.
And I also wanna mention that community outreach programs and the like have helped doing exactly that, keeping kids out of gangs and such.
Community stuff does help, and there are measures being taken on that angle. It's not like nothing is being done on that side.
Oh, one more thing: Jobs. Jobs help people get education, stay away from crime, etc., right?
Black non-convicts are hired at a rate equal to white convicts, based on a comprehensive study using the exact same resumes and qualifications, and 3,500 interviews at 1,500 employers.
White non-convicts get hired about 35% more than black non-convicts.
And black convicts get hired about 57% less... than white convicts/black non-convicts.
All with, again, the exact same level of qualifications.
Having job hiring be less discriminatory is also likely a way to help the situation and get neighborhoods out of the holes they're in.
Follow the authorities and there's a 90% chance they won't kill/shoot you. Resisting arrest will only make the situation worse. And like prevously stated, cop shooting at innocents also happen to any other race. Probably more than blacks. And it's mostly because these idiots resist arrest.
Ah, nation wide? It's 3:1 ratio blacks:whites being killed by police. Some cities a lot more. And blacks don't have 3 times the per capita crime. So... yea, this is a definite, well-recorded problem on the police side.
I mean, like you say, there's a 90% chance they won't kill/shoot/beat you. However, it is much higher chance among black people than white. Enough that in a big neighborhood, everyone will know people who've had it happen to them. Which in turn, makes people a lot more hesitant to turn to police for protection. Sure, you may be fine... but you may also be arrested or harassed for a BS reason. And in a lot of these communities, because it's a ghetto/hood, the police will go in with a suspicious look, leading to most interactions with police being at the least non-friendly... even by people who are keeping their act together.
There was a story the other day on NPR by a black writer examining the subject, and he talked about how his parents, and the parents of every single black person he grew up with, were terrified of their kids being beaten or taken away by the police, because they'd seen it happen, and he wasn't even from a poor ghetto, he was from a middle-class black neighborhood that didn't have a particular gang or crime problem.
It's hard to trust the police when there's still a lot of police who act badly. You can't put it entirely on the community when racism in police is wide-spread and well documented and doesn't limit itself to actual criminals.
If you aren't involved, it's easy to discount the problem/think it's exaggerated, but there's a lot of documentation on the subject, and, furthermore, a lot of statistical analysis showing that black americans do get a noticeably worse shake from the legal system. Not even close.
Originally posted by MF DELPH
Pretty much. I don't think domestic martial law in the hood is a good idea. You might eventually see guerilla warfare and suicide bombings since the citizens would feel like they were living under occupation. Chicago would truly become CHIraq.
Re: Re: Re: Re: The American sense of justice and morality is dead. Do you agree?
Originally posted by Q99
But, here's the thing- the injustices that are overlooked? Generally have been for a long time.Things aren't getting worse that I see. I don't see any big categories of injustice that are recently formed. Or in other worse, I'm not seeing signs of it dying.
If one is considering it dead now, then I think that's effectively saying it was never alive to begin with, because if anything I think it's getting slowly better.
See, I'm not sure about that, I think we're just hearing more of problems that were there.
I mean, the actual crime rates are going down in most crimes. Murders are down, violence is down...
I'm not necessarily talking about big injustices. That is what I mean, we do focus on big ones, crime is down, but I think our justice system overall gets worse. Or it could just be it is getting exposed for what it has always been.
But when a person can drive drunk and kill 4 people and merely get probation then the system isn't getting better. Money rules everything. The corruption in these places has just changed into various forms over the years, but it always remains. If it isn't getting stronger it doesn't seem to be getting weaker. That isn't to say anything about the level of crime, but I think the entire court system needs to be overhauled. Just look at what happened in Oregon. I don't mean the occupation, but the royal f*ck up by the courts.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The American sense of justice and morality is dead. Do you agree?
Originally posted by Surtur
I'm not necessarily talking about big injustices. That is what I mean, we do focus on big ones, crime is down, but I think our justice system overall gets worse. Or it could just be it is getting exposed for what it has always been.But when a person can drive drunk and kill 4 people and merely get probation then the system isn't getting better. Money rules everything. The corruption in these places has just changed into various forms over the years, but it always remains. If it isn't getting stronger it doesn't seem to be getting weaker. That isn't to say anything about the level of crime, but I think the entire court system needs to be overhauled. Just look at what happened in Oregon. I don't mean the occupation, but the royal f*ck up by the courts.
Ah yea, the 'affluenza' case. There's always been court glitches, but I think the drunk driving example is a better one because it's *sooo* wtf.
Hm, I really do wonder if one could track that over time... with the increased number of super rich since the 80s, I really don't know if it's gotten better or worse or stayed the same.