Originally posted by BeyonderGod
-LT was never weakened
-MM to CA wasnt hyperbole but a analogy
-Tenchiverse is a contradiction+paradox and kami has 0 feats
Tenchi created the Choushin, which created a multiverse bigger than Marvel's, with higher dimensions and such.
You can't just ignore feats because you don't like them.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Anyway, omnipotence is relative. In the Tenchiverse, he is effectively omnipotent. How would he compare to omnipotents from other series that have more accomplished far more? We can't say, we don't know.
On that note, what omniponents have accomplished far more? The Choushin's feats of creation are way up there even among creator types in terms of scale, what with the inclusion of all the higher dimension universes in addition to all the 3 dimensional ones, and endless of each.
Originally posted by Q99
Tenchi created the Choushin, which created a multiverse bigger than Marvel's, with higher dimensions and such.You can't just ignore feats because you don't like them.
1. He didnt create the choushin
2. The choushin created HIM as stated and shown.
3. They dont have a multiverse nor is it bigger than marvel also higher dimensions are you high?
The Beyonder (Pre-Retcon) was a infinitely dimensional enitity.
LT exist beyond/maintenance the infinite number of dimensions.
Myriad of adjacent pocket universes.*
4. Noone is denying anything the fact he is featless is the point.
Originally posted by Q99
On that note, what omniponents have accomplished far more? The Choushin's feats of creation are way up there even among creator types in terms of scale, what with the inclusion of all the higher dimension universes in addition to all the 3 dimensional ones, and endless of each.
1. He didnt create the choushin
2. The choushin created HIM as stated and shown.
Yes, he created the Choushin. It's a time loop. Kami Tenchi created the Choushin that created the universe that gave rise to him.
This was the entire point of making the multiverse. Characters said this. Here is Washu being proud that Ryoko/Zero figured that out. Washu, being one of the Choushin, is quite the authority on this subject.
3. They dont have a multiverse nor is it bigger than marvel also higher dimensions are you high?
Look, the Choushin saying this stuff was quoted on the first page. Here's just one of the quotes. The experiments being referred to are universes. Here's them talking about infinite universes more directly.
"Marvel is bigger because I chose to ignore how Tenchi says it's multiverse works," is not a convincing argument.
That it involves time-loops and abstract terms doesn't make it not the case.
The Beyonder (Pre-Retcon) was a infinitely dimensional enitity.
Yea, they really hit the retcon hammer hard there. Now even a whole species of Beyonds, the Ivory Kings, can't claim that.
Btw, I will mention the Choushin themselves are not 22nd dimensional. They exist in the Hyperdimension, beyond all normal dimensions.
LT exist beyond/maintenance the infinite number of dimensions.
That's not actually what that quote says. It says he looks over universes, some of who's number of spacial dimensions were irrational, such as having Pi dimensions, 'that number that stretches out towards infinity'.
As the latest Secret Wars shows (as well as what some other series like EXiles indicate), the number was finite.
Choushin do infinitely linked universes themselves. And they made them.
4. Noone is denying anything the fact he is featless is the point.
I'm denying that, and so are others like Nemebro and SSJGGogeta. What's even the point of saying that when multiple have said what he's done? He made the Choushin, undid the Counteractor, time-traveled in OAV 3, and such. Most notably, he made the Choushin, and was made by them to be beyond them. But "making the Choushin" is his biggest feat.
You're just repeating he's featless because you don't like the feats.
22-Dimensions.....which are 22 universes and that they are what infinite?
Nope, dimensions as in length/width/etc.. Think like how DC has 5th dimensional imps, aside from normal alternate worlds.
There's multiple shown 3-dimensional universes like the main ones, i.e. not higher or low dimensions, and there's outright said to be infinite universes.
a single universe IS infinite that isnt a multiverse the Living Tribunal created something VASTLY bigger and VASTLY more on scale aka the Brothers Yin and Yang.
One, the Living Tribunal didn't make the Marvel multiverse, he just tends to it. Two, Marvel universes aren't infinite, they have boundaries, as shown in the Annihilation/Guardians of the Galaxy serieses, Knowhere is near the edge of the universe. Note that our universe is not infinite, and most fictional universes follow the same thing.
So, long story short:
Kami Tenchi created the Choushin.
The Choushin created infinite universes.
All this has been shown in this thread.
The Marvel Multiverse is demonstrated non-infinite- heck, latest storyline had it compacted to one finite large world.
That you don't like that Kami Tenchi created the Choushin or this other stuff did not mean it didn't happen. Paradoxical doesn't mean that didn't happen. That you apparently don't get how the 'one created three which created one' thing works also doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that you don't get it.
Which, I believe, settles things.
So no proof of Omnipotence
So no proof of Omnipresence
So no proof of Omniscience
So again....
>He was created by the choushin regardless of paradox or not.
>He has time travel which contradicts his "All-Powerful" status because going back in time doesnt make you god at all.
Long story short:
Kami tenchi is featless regardless of the things stated here since he HAS to be powerscaled which would still put him below most of other fictional characters.
Seriously, the heck is with you?
"Here's proof of them making infinite universes. Here's characters talking about them being made by K-T."
"No proof, no proof!"
Plugging your ears is crap arguing.
>He was created by the choushin regardless of paradox or not.
Yes. This is true. And he's stronger than them. Your point?
>He has time travel which contradicts his "All-Powerful" status because going back in time doesnt make you god at all.
What? How does going back in time make someone not-a-god?
Quite the opposite, if one can't time travel, and another can, that other has one less limit than the ones who can't.
In Marvel, the Beyonders lost *because* they couldn't time travel, and Doom could.
Kami tenchi is featless
Feat one: He created the Choushin.
Feat two: He undid the universal-scale Counteractor.
Feat three: Reset the universe a bit.
Feat four: Time travel.
You keep saying featless, but you clearly are just ignoring feats.
regardless of the things stated here since he HAS to be powerscaled
He is powerscaled off his creations and their stated power of him, but he also did stuff. "Regardless of the things stated here," keep in mind, the things stated here are the creation feat he did, and then scaling off of that.
As well as the other stuff he did in OAV3, but that's the big one.
which would still put him below most of other fictional characters.
"He's powerscaled above infinite universe creators... that makes him weaker than most fictional character!"
Are you even trying? Or do you honestly think just repeatedly 'featless' is an argument?
Feat one: He created the Choushin.
Feat two: He undid the universal-scale Counteractor.
Feat three: Reset the universe a bit.
Feat four: Time travel.
You keep saying featless, but you clearly are just ignoring feats.
1. 0 PROOF of him creating the choushin
2. How is that impressive or a feat? Even Z could have beaten her.
3. Reset the universe abit? YOU MEAN THE CHOUSHIN reset the universe.
4. Cool.....already knew this
You are making statements without proof...
What? How does going back in time make someone not-a-god?Quite the opposite, if one can't time travel, and another can, that other has one less limit than the ones who can't.
In Marvel, the Beyonders lost *because* they couldn't time travel, and Doom could.
He is powerscaled off his creations and their stated power of him, but he also did stuff. "Regardless of the things stated here," keep in mind, the things stated here are the creation feat he did, and then scaling off of that.As well as the other stuff he did in OAV3, but that's the big one.
He's powerscaled above infinite universe creators... that makes him weaker than most fictional character!"Are you even trying? Or do you honestly think just repeatedly 'featless' is an argument?
You ignored the fact that Nigh-Omnipotence CAN'T be scaled because by your logic those who face Galactus/IG users are NIGH-OMNIPOTENT which isnt the case.
Its accepted he is Featless.
Originally posted by Q99
Seriously, the heck is with you?"Here's proof of them making infinite universes. Here's characters talking about them being made by K-T."
"No proof, no proof!"
Plugging your ears is crap arguing.
Yes. This is true. And he's stronger than them. Your point?
What? How does going back in time make someone not-a-god?
Quite the opposite, if one can't time travel, and another can, that other has one less limit than the ones who can't.
In Marvel, the Beyonders lost *because* they couldn't time travel, and Doom could.
Feat one: He created the Choushin.
Feat two: He undid the universal-scale Counteractor.
Feat three: Reset the universe a bit.
Feat four: Time travel.
You keep saying featless, but you clearly are just ignoring feats.
He is powerscaled off his creations and their stated power of him, but he also did stuff. "Regardless of the things stated here," keep in mind, the things stated here are the creation feat he did, and then scaling off of that.
As well as the other stuff he did in OAV3, but that's the big one.
"He's powerscaled above infinite universe creators... that makes him weaker than most fictional character!"
Are you even trying? Or do you honestly think just repeatedly 'featless' is an argument?
Don't waste your time, Q99. Just ignore him, like the majority of us do.
Originally posted by BeyonderGod
2. How is that impressive or a feat? Even Z could have beaten her.
Hah, not at all. The Counteractor is effectively completely immortal in the 3-d realm, and made through the accumulation of Choushin energy.
Even the Choushin's limited 3d manifestations are much beyond Z, which is why he called upon the Counteract to stalemate them. In a third dimensional universe, it's almost impossible to beat the Counteractor. Drawing on higher powers will do the job, but at the cost of the universe- which is normally no problem, because they can effortlessly re-create a universe, but they cannot recreate Z and Tenchi, which put them in an ugly stalemate where they really couldn't do much.
1. Going back in time doesn't make you god.....
It doesn't make you *not* a god, which does make me wonder why you keep on acting like it's a minus. It's a power that, say, the Beyonders don't have.
He did make three multiiverse creators. And is noted to be more powerful than them. That's really the main stuff that matters.
3. The beyonders had Plot induced stupidity since it was for SW why even mention them when they aren't part of this discussion?
Because 'the Choushin have higher feats than the Marvel Multiverse' came up as an analogy since you're likely familiar with them too. Also because since you don't actually define what you mean by 'omnipotent,' in order to answer your questions the best way to do so is to use analogies to similar characters who you are familiar with, so as to establish the level of play the Choushin, and thus Kami Tenchi, are on.
Do you consider the Infinity Gauntlet, Beyonder, or so on, 'omnipotent'? (Once again, you've failed to define precisely what you mean by that, so I'm stuck asking) Well, the Choushin have higher feats. They created an infinite multiverse, bigger than the Marvel Multiverse which is shown-non-infinite.
He is still basically Featless....
I'm going to interpret you saying 'featless' as "you don't like admitting being wrong."
It makes more sense in context, because you keep kinda-admitting feats, then yelling featless-featless-featless when it comes to a conclusion you don't like.
>Creators of the universe
Gets beaten up by the counter actor.....
For the specific reason that manifesting fully would destroy the universe, and they were thus limited to 3-d manifestations.
You ignored the fact that Nigh-Omnipotence CAN'T be scaled because by your logic those who face Galactus/IG users are NIGH-OMNIPOTENT which isnt the case.
Nope, that doesn't follow at all. Simply facing something is not the same as what's going on here. We have specific feats of the Choushin's power, we have feats of Kami Tenchi, and we have stated comparison between Kami Tenchi's power and the Choushin's.
If a being is said to be more powerful than Galactus or an Infinity Gauntlet user, that's not the same as merely 'facing' them. Indeed, Infinity Gauntlet > Galactus is a good example of this. And Beyonder > Infinity Gauntlet beyond that.
So you say 'by my logic,' but really, it's more 'by your logic.' My logic is pretty straightforward.
The Choushin have the feats of creating an infinite multiverse, and being able to create new universes easily. Kami Tenchi created them, was created to be beyond them, as well as doing some other lesser stuff.
SSJGGogetaDon't waste your time, Q99. Just ignore him, like the majority of us do.
Yea, I probably should. He is... not good at arguing.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Yeah bro, don't worry, you won here.It's obvious he only made this stupid thread to wank his favorite character, as per usual.
Just ignore him, and Yungz will pick him up with the rest of the short bus crew.
K kid 👆
Originally posted by Q99
Hah, not at all. The Counteractor is effectively completely immortal in the 3-d realm, and made through the accumulation of Choushin energy.
Originally posted by Q99
Even the Choushin's limited 3d manifestations are much beyond Z, which is why he called upon the Counteract to stalemate them. In a third dimensional universe, it's almost impossible to beat the Counteractor. Drawing on higher powers will do the job, but at the cost of the universe- which is normally no problem, because they can effortlessly re-create a universe, but they cannot recreate Z and Tenchi, which put them in an ugly stalemate where they really couldn't do much.
2nd stalemate?....the choushin were literally being CHOKED aka being injured BY the counter-actor.
3rd I can name beings who can beat the counter-actor in the 3rd dimension.....a good list as well and if they could have.
4th I already know about the "Inabilities" to re-create both Z and Tenchi....but the problem WITH that is if they can reset a UNIVERSE but can't re-create 2 beings I see a problem POWER wise.
Originally posted by Q99
It doesn't make you *not* a god, which does make me wonder why you keep on acting like it's a minus. It's a power that, say, the Beyonders don't have.He did make three multiiverse creators. And is noted to be more powerful than them. That's really the main stuff that matters.
2nd the beyonders > tenchi muyoverse I dont see you using a PIS as a feat....since beyonder CAN go back in time and the beyonders cant? And the beyonder is a BABY a CHILD of the Beyonders.
3rd 0 Proof he created "Multi-Universe" creators also and yeah it matters BECAUSE their is absolutely 0 sources/proof HE CREATED THEM even TOKIMI stated no evidence and again Tsunami CREATED Masaki WHO created KT since its just him in the future.
Originally posted by Q99
Because 'the Choushin have higher feats than the Marvel Multiverse' came up as an analogy since you're likely familiar with them too. Also because since you don't actually define what you mean by 'omnipotent,' in order to answer your questions the best way to do so is to use analogies to similar characters who you are familiar with, so as to establish the level of play the Choushin, and thus Kami Tenchi, are on.
In similarities???
The choushin aren't even on Galactus W/UN LEVEL
KT has no real feats to place him on Galactus level beings.
Omnipotent as the being is all 3 Infinite Power,All-Knowing, and Everywhere at once and KT DOES NOT FIT THIS DESCRIPTION.
Originally posted by Q99
Do you consider the Infinity Gauntlet, Beyonder, or so on, 'omnipotent'? (Once again, you've failed to define precisely what you mean by that, so I'm stuck asking) Well, the Choushin have higher feats. They created an infinite multiverse, bigger than the Marvel Multiverse which is shown-non-infinite.[/Quote{
1. IG is Nigh-Infinite not omnipotence
2. Pre-Retcon Beyonder has already has Infinite Power and it was confirmed in a handbook I post around.
3. Infinite Multi-Universe and no not even bigger than the marvel OMNIVERSE and which has shown and confirmed to be infinite.So let me lay the truth here.
Infinite dimensions making it a true MULTIVERSE with other series making it a MEGAVERSE which is a higher level of infinity and with that its the OMNIVERSE which is everything and anything within marvel/real life/other series they have done.=Marvel
22-dimensions are all universes which are infinite but isn't a Multiverse =Tenchi MuyoNo debate here
[QUOTE=15457198]Originally posted by Q99
I'm going to interpret you saying 'featless' as "you don't like admitting being wrong."It makes more sense in context, because you keep kinda-admitting feats, then yelling featless-featless-featless when it comes to a conclusion you don't like.
Originally posted by Q99
For the specific reason that manifesting fully would destroy the universe, and they were thus limited to 3-d manifestations.Nope, that doesn't follow at all. Simply facing something is not the same as what's going on here. We have specific feats of the Choushin's power, we have feats of Kami Tenchi, and we have stated comparison between Kami Tenchi's power and the Choushin's.
2. KT doesn't have the same feats THEY have and using a compared Featless being with beings with Featless and he doesn't he have any ON-PANEL feats other than Time Travel/Galaxy strength in his SUPER SIZE form.
Originally posted by Q99
If a being is said to be more powerful than Galactus or an Infinity Gauntlet user, that's not the same as merely 'facing' them. Indeed, Infinity Gauntlet > Galactus is a good example of this. And Beyonder > Infinity Gauntlet beyond that.
So you say 'by my logic,' but really, it's more 'by your logic.' My logic is pretty straightforward.
The Choushin have the feats of creating an infinite multiverse, and being able to create new universes easily. Kami Tenchi created them, was created to be beyond them, as well as doing some other lesser stuff.Yea, I probably should. He is... not good at arguing.
I agree with the fact you aren't good at arguing....
1. Your logic isn't straightforward its basically Powerscaling the concept of nigh-omnipotence which cant be POWERSCALED.
2. You tried to use a analogy of powers he doesn't even have or has shown....
3. The choushin has the feat of creating 22 Universes which isnt even infinite like a true MULTIVERSE and also 0% proof he created them that's fan speculation and just because he is above them doesn't MAKE him God like at ALL and also
KT beats the counter-actor and the choushin couldn't even beat the counter-actor only proving the concept of contradictions/inconstancies
If the choushin were so power why couldn't they just think CA out of existence?.....why did KT have to kiss the counter actor? Things we dont know because of lazy plotting how can 3 NIGH-OMNIPOTENT beings get straight choked out by something they indirectly created?
Seriously
KT is Featless here nothing to debate or to use him in such debates.
Logic here:
KT is God because of time travel
KT is God because he "Apparently" created the choushin
Actual Logic:
KT isnt God because of time travel
KT isnt God because no proof of him creating anything.
Logic here:
KT being above Nigh-Omnipotent beings means he is God
Actual Logic:
LT who is a Nigh-Omnipotent being had been above another Nigh-Infinite power aka Eternity,Infinite, and the IG meaning oh he MUST BE GOD!
That's what's going on in this post. 😖leep:
