Marriage & Divorce in the 21st century.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
It is, of course, totally a mistake for me to engage here at all, but what the hell...

This is something that occurs to me a lot watching things spill out in real life. So, these cartoons at the top are obviously not a balanced view- we have the woman at home, the nagging woman, the woman as the guilty cheater, the woman who turns the kids against the man etc. I know there's a couple of things that can be read like the man is at fault there as well, but the overwhelming feel is the woman at fault (especially the second one). Hopefully, no-one is seriously advancing that as the average state of affairs.

My thing is though- even within the 'wronged-man' bias of the cartoon, I can't help thinking the man is a bit of a prat. This starts right at the start when to both requests he says 'ok'. Now, from what I have observed of failed marriages in my social circle and general area, an 'ok' attitude is the start of many things. People want to get to the 'live happily ever after, roll the end credits' situation and so when someone suggests marriage and/or kids, they say 'ok' because that's the objective, yeah?

But often this is a decision made without any actual analysis about whether this is a good idea. You may WANT something to be a good idea, but that doesn't make it so. This is more than just haste- it's a fundamental inability of some (dare I say many?)people to understand what marriage and long-term relationships really entail.

This is where I can run intro trouble- but I really think this is a problem that disadvantages the woman. In a relationship that is failing because the couple failed to consider the long-term consequences, it's generally the woman who gets the short side. The man seems to think things are ok and doesn't notice that the woman is unhappy. Then when the woman snaps, it's the woman that tends to get blamed, whereas to my mind, the inability of the man to even sense there was a problem is at least as big an issue. The panel above where the man is going golfing whilst the wife is pissed off rather sums it up actually.

This isn't a 'men are the bad guys' post either- because women are just as much as men able to jump into a long-term relationship that isn't actually a good idea. It's just a short part of my general feeling that the major problem with marriage today is the starting point- people jumping in cluelessly without proper communication, not because they are incapable of communication but because they are too blinded by social convention and a wish for everything to work out actually to think clearly about consequences.

And so, as I say, even in a one-sided thing like this, I see the man say 'ok' and I immediately think "Idiot!"

I've seen marriages detonate in worse ways than that cartoon, and everyone wants to blame the woman, but I also see a man who got it wrong, and it was the woman who was suffering first. That's not to absolve of blame, but it's to point out that blame is often more complex than it looks at first.

And for every blatantly failed marriage, I think there are at least as many that are just bloody miserable for the same reason, but are forced to stay together by convention, cowardice (and I find cowardice very understandable there btw) or because there's no other way to bring up the kids.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
It is, of course, totally a mistake for me to engage here at all, but what the hell...

This is something that occurs to me a lot watching things spill out in real life. So, these cartoons at the top are obviously not a balanced view- we have the woman at home, the nagging woman, the woman as the guilty cheater, the woman who turns the kids against the man etc. I know there's a couple of things that can be read like the man is at fault there as well, but the overwhelming feel is the woman at fault (especially the second one). Hopefully, no-one is seriously advancing that as the average state of affairs.

My thing is though- even within the 'wronged-man' bias of the cartoon, I can't help thinking the man is a bit of a prat. This starts right at the start when to both requests he says 'ok'. Now, from what I have observed of failed marriages in my social circle and general area, an 'ok' attitude is the start of many things. People want to get to the 'live happily ever after, roll the end credits' situation and so when someone suggests marriage and/or kids, they say 'ok' because that's the objective, yeah?

But often this is a decision made without any actual analysis about whether this is a good idea. You may WANT something to be a good idea, but that doesn't make it so. This is more than just haste- it's a fundamental inability of some (dare I say many?)people to understand what marriage and long-term relationships really entail.

This is where I can run intro trouble- but I really think this is a problem that disadvantages the woman. In a relationship that is failing because the couple failed to consider the long-term consequences, it's generally the woman who gets the short side. The man seems to think things are ok and doesn't notice that the woman is unhappy. Then when the woman snaps, it's the woman that tends to get blamed, whereas to my mind, the inability of the man to even sense there was a problem is at least as big an issue. The panel above where the man is going golfing whilst the wife is pissed off rather sums it up actually.

This isn't a 'men are the bad guys' post either- because women are just as much as men able to jump into a long-term relationship that isn't actually a good idea. It's just a short part of my general feeling that the major problem with marriage today is the starting point- people jumping in cluelessly without proper communication, not because they are incapable of communication but because they are too blinded by social convention and a wish for everything to work out actually to think clearly about consequences.

And so, as I say, even in a one-sided thing like this, I see the man say 'ok' and I immediately think "Idiot!"

I've seen marriages detonate in worse ways than that cartoon, and everyone wants to blame the woman, but I also see a man who got it wrong, and it was the woman who was suffering first. That's not to absolve of blame, but it's to point out that blame is often more complex than it looks at first.

And for every blatantly failed marriage, I think there are at least as many that are just bloody miserable for the same reason, but are forced to stay together by convention, cowardice (and I find cowardice very understandable there btw) or because there's no other way to bring up the kids.

As much as I agree with most of what you said... This thread is supposed to be taken seriously?

Originally posted by -Pr-
As much as I agree with most of what you said... This thread is supposed to be taken seriously?

Men are more "statistically" likely to cheat because women are more sneaky about it. They won't admit to it, even when confronted with evidence. Let alone admitting it to some random survey or however they get stats. Think about it..why do men cheat most of the time? To get laid. Not a lot of thought is put into it really. Women operate differently.

Though I will say what it depicts in terms of what happens when a woman cheats is usually true. She always makes out the man to be the bad guy, it's always his fault. It is the same for the divorce, she will expect you to rarely see your kids and yet still keep handing over cash. Then that "child" support goes to things like new clothes for mom or a new haircut. I swear we should make an EBT type card for child support so it can only be spent on certain things.

Of course men cheat too and all that, but they also get royally f*cked over most of the time when it comes to marriage and divorce. How many men have you heard about going to jail for not paying child support? I've heard a bunch of stories. Never heard any about women though.

Originally posted by Surtur
Men are more "statistically" likely to cheat because women are more sneaky about it. They won't admit to it, even when confronted with evidence. Let alone admitting it to some random survey or however they get stats. Think about it..why do men cheat most of the time? To get laid. Not a lot of thought is put into it really. Women operate differently.

Though I will say what it depicts in terms of what happens when a woman cheats is 100% true. She always makes out the man to be the bad guy, it's always his fault. It is the same for the divorce, she will expect you to rarely see your kids and yet still keep handing over cash. Then that "child" support goes to things like new clothes for mom or a new haircut. I swear we should make an EBT type card for child support so it can only be spent on certain things.

I'd be very careful about '100% true' commentary like that. Even in my 'spectacular detonation' example (and trust me, it was pretty damn bad as far as marriage failures go), the post-marriage situation with the kid was worked out reasonably amicably.

I actually don't particularly believe what you say about women post-marriage there is general practice. I think setups like that get disproportionate media attention is all.

Originally posted by long pig
Sure. Let's talk about the stupidity of marriage.

I don't think marriage is inherently stupid. I think a lot of men and women go in to it without fully realising the gravity of what they're doing, and they can be equally at fault when the marriage fails.

Originally posted by long pig
Sure. Let's talk about the stupidity of marriage.

You need to stop acting like a little whiny bitchboy. If you don't want to get married, then don't ever get married, it's really that simple.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I'd be very careful about '100% true' commentary like that. Even in my 'spectacular detonation' example (and trust me, it was pretty damn bad as far as marriage failures go), the post-marriage situation with the kid was worked out reasonably amicably.

I actually don't particularly believe what you say about women post-marriage there is general practice. I think setups like that get disproportionate media attention is all.

That is why I edited it. But even if the setup I mentioned doesn't happen all the time it happens far far more often then the reverse. Men in general just get screwed here, especially if kids are involved. Might be different in other countries, but here the system is utterly broken.

Originally posted by Robtard
You need to stop acting like a little whiny bitchboy. If you don't want to get married, then don't ever get married, it's really that simple.

To be fair it's not always that simple. Some women shockingly want to get married sooner or later. Yes yes, I know it will be "simply don't date someone like that then". Problem is affairs of the heart aren't always simple and sometimes people change and want things they never thought they'd want.

If a woman pushes you into a marriage you don't want that's already a sign it's going to fail.

Well yes of course, but if you are in love with this person and they had previously said they didn't want marriage and then one day they decide they truly do want it..it's not so easy to just say "well goodbye". It would need to be done, but it wouldn't be a simple thing to do.

Getting married when you're one of the "NEVER GETTING MARRIED!!!11!" types, just so your partner won't leave you is setting yourself up for failure.

Originally posted by Robtard
You need to stop acting like a little whiny bitchboy. If you don't want to get married, then don't ever get married, it's really that simple.

Originally posted by Robtard
Getting married when you're one of the "NEVER GETTING MARRIED!!!11!" types, just so your partner won't leave you is setting yourself up for failure.

I know it is, I was just pointing out for some people it's not so easy to walk away from a relationship.

Originally posted by long pig
Calm your ****, lady. This is a discussion.

You basically copied the message of what I said and turned it into a rant. Not only is that a weak tactic, but you were already warned about your rampant plagiarizing, you plagiarist.

Originally posted by Robtard
You basically copied the message of what I said and turned it into a rant. Not only is that a weak tactic, but you were already warned about your rampant plagiarizing, you plagiarist.

Ok, please don't ruin my vague attempt to make this a worthwhile topic.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Ok, please don't ruin my vague attempt to make this a worthwhile topic.