Originally posted by jmoul
Aizen said Yamamoto was above him, true, BUT that before his Hogyoku transformations, each one increasing his spirit energy to a higher level. At the 4th stage (or 3rd, whatever, the one with the black face and mouths on his wings), Aizen STILL couldn't sense Ichigo's spirit energy.While Aizen may not have been stronger than Yamamoto when he said Yama was superior to him, but when Ichigo hit him with Mugetsu, Aizen was at least on par with Yamamoto.
This entire post is rambling nonsense based off of simple assumption. You have no way to gauge Aizen's power at that point, compared to his power in his previous forms. All we know is that Gin was still fully capable of harming Aizen in his 3rd evolution, and Gin was weaker than Aizen was in base form. What this proves is that Aizen's evolutions clearly didn't make him THAT much stronger, since even FOUR TRANSFORMATIONS didn't put him on a "plane of existence" above Gin.
And let's also not forget that Aizen's strongest attacks weren't in danger of destroying the real Karakura town, when just the AFTEREFFECTS of Yamamoto's shikai WERE GOING to destroy the town, had he not absorbed the damage himself.
Those aftereffects only occurred because Wonderweiss condensed and contained it all into a bomb. Yamamoto's shikai wasn't directly going to wipe out Karakura Town except if it was all released as a single blast.
Gin was only able to wound Aizen through surprise attack and trickery. His attack may have wounded Aizen, but that was when Aizen was 2 evolutions lower than when Ichigo hit him with Mugetsu. And what did that effort win Gin? Well, it cost him an arm and a life.
Also, Aizen's strongest attacks wouldn't have been able to destroy Karakura? Really? He hit Ichigo with the spirit energy bomb that at least appeared to be a nuclear explosion (based on the fact that Tatsuki and the others were hit with some of the force of the explosion). I'm pretty sure that would wipe out a good portion of Karakura if not all of it.
Originally posted by jmoul
Those aftereffects only occurred because Wonderweiss condensed and contained it all into a bomb. Yamamoto's shikai wasn't directly going to wipe out Karakura Town except if it was all released as a single blast.Gin was only able to wound Aizen through surprise attack and trickery. His attack may have wounded Aizen, but that was when Aizen was 2 evolutions lower than when Ichigo hit him with Mugetsu. And what did that effort win Gin? Well, it cost him an arm and a life.
Uh, so? Yamamoto's shikai held the potency to destroy more than even Aizen's greatest attack in his greatest form. That's ridiculous, and clearly puts him above Aizen.
Again, SO? Ichigo outright slammed his sword into Kenpachi's chest, and ended up skinning his hands because of it. Without even scratching Kenpachi. Clearly the difference between the two was bigger than the difference between Aizen and Ichigo, or Aizen and Gin. And even that difference was very slight. And that was ONE evolution below his final form. Not two.
Either way, the proof is in the pudding. Yamamoto has far greater strength, destructive capacity, durability, fighting style, and hax. Not to mention his speed.
You don't have a single SHRED of evidence that puts Aizen anywhere NEAR Yamamoto, but there IS proof that Yamamoto is far greater than Aizen. As was even STATED outright, by Aizen HIMSELF. 👆
Originally posted by yungz22
I dont have a definitive answer for whos stronger...... zanka no tachi is pretty hax as well as kyoka suigetsu plus the fact that aizen is immortal now and it is suggested that he has gotten stronger since his defeat...would be a good fight but the victor is hard to concretly define
Read the OP. 👆
This fighting isn't Aizen vs. Yamamoto, it's Mugetsu Ichigo vs. The Gotei 13.
And the scale is still Bankai Yamamoto >>>>> Mugetsu Ichigo >>> Aizen.
Current pl's don't matter. Aizen could be a hundred times stronger than Yamamoto right now, and the thread still goes to Yama.
Aizen hasn't gotten that much stronger though, jsyk.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Read the OP. 👆This fighting isn't Aizen vs. Yamamoto, it's Mugetsu Ichigo vs. The Gotei 13.
And the scale is still Bankai Yamamoto >>>>> Mugetsu Ichigo >>> Aizen.
Current pl's don't matter. Aizen could be a hundred times stronger than Yamamoto right now, and the thread still goes to Yama.
Aizen hasn't gotten that much stronger though, jsyk.
aizen is part of the gotei 13 is he not?
Originally posted by jmoul
Alright, since we've established that Yama is the most difficult of the Captains for Ichigo to beat (as expected), how do the other captains do against him?
Yeah, the only one who could manage anything is Shunsui, and that's only with his bankai. And I can still see Ichigo overpowering that.