Flash (Wally) vs HP Doomsday

Originally posted by Stoic
The problem with this line of reasoning is that it's implications would now have to extend to other characters.

So you are saying it is a problem if we acknowledge the massive speed advantage here because in the future we'd have to acknowledge the massive speed advantage of other characters? I don't see that as a bad thing.

My line of reasoning is quite simple: Doomsday has zero feats on the level of a high end Wally West, thus he isn't going to be able to react to a blitz. If someone has something to counter this I'd be all ears, as long as it isn't "oh but in death of Superman characters totally said he was fast" because that is not enough to put Doomsday on the level of reacting to a guy who can evacuate a city of half a million people in a split second, run so fast he out runs death, move so fast Superman is a statue, etc.

Originally posted by Surtur
So you are saying it is a problem if we acknowledge the massive speed advantage here because in the future we'd have to acknowledge the massive speed advantage of other characters? I don't see that as a bad thing.

My line of reasoning is quite simple: Doomsday has zero feats on the level of a high end Wally West, thus he isn't going to be able to react to a blitz. If someone has something to counter this I'd be all ears, as long as it isn't "oh but in death of Superman characters totally said he was fast" because that is not enough to put Doomsday on the level of reacting to a guy who can evacuate a city of half a million people in a split second, run so fast he out runs death, move so fast Superman is a statue, etc.

Actually what I was saying is that I agree with you completely. However if you were to skim through many of the responses to the OP, you would see that people are more than willing to bend the rules that they stood by up until the shit approached their favorite character. This thread however excludes the personal limitations self imposed by Wally. This allows for an argument to be formed that Doomsday has already beaten the Flash without seemingly having to deal with Flash speed steals off of the bat and wins the day, even though many are saying this to avoid implicating favorite character X's impending ass whipping if the question were shifted to them instead of Doomsday.

Oh okay I get what you are saying..

I believe that if Flash attempted to speed steal HP DD in the actual HP comic then DD would have adapted before it fully was stolen and reversed it. I believe that the intentions of the writer was that nothing in the universe could end DD other than the end of time. This was the clear intentions of the writer if you read the story.

Feats matter more then writer intent though. So if you want to say DD would resist or adapt you'd need to show him adapting to a similar attack. Note when I say similar I do not mean the exact same type of speed draining attack, but if he showed he could adapt to esoteric powers that aren't just physical attacks..you could certainly argue he'd adapt.

Originally posted by Surtur
Feats matter more then writer intent though. So if you want to say DD would resist or adapt you'd need to show him adapting to a similar attack. Note when I say similar I do not mean the exact same type of speed draining attack, but if he showed he could adapt to esoteric powers that aren't just physical attacks..you could certainly argue he'd adapt.

For example, Zeus should only as powerful as his feats show. He lifted a mountain after growing large and damaged a holding back Hulk in multiple blows. As far as Zeus durability is concerned he was affected (but endured) a combined attack from she Hulk, Thor, and namor. He was also affected from Hulk blows without significant damage. If so his durability is around high Herald level and his strength is about high Herald level too.

We don't know how fast DD moved other than characters comments. DD also moved faster than Superman could respond, having Superman complain about his speed.

But that is how things go..characters are indeed as powerful as their feats show.

So Flash has indeed stolen speed before, from living beings and inanimate objects.

Yes, the characters commented on his speed. But see what you fail to mention is he pretty much never displayed speed on that level in the future, and even in one fight Superman outright outsped him, blitzed him, etc.

So I feel it is pointless to bring up the DoS thing because not a single person who was shocked by his speed had speed anywhere near high level Wally West. Flash at the time wasn't anywhere near as powerful as he'd become.

So if you wanted to say HP has super speed, I'd say great when did the HP version show it?

Also do you really want to use "Superman complained about his speed" as any kind of evidence? Pretty sure Superman at one point also complained about how fast Deathstroke was. Or if he didn't outright complain he sure as hell made a comment about how impressive it was. My point is sometimes Superman says shit that doesn't make a lick of sense.

Originally posted by Surtur
But that is how things go..characters are indeed as powerful as their feats show.

So Flash has indeed stolen speed before, from living beings and inanimate objects.

Yes, the characters commented on his speed. But see what you fail to mention is he pretty much never displayed speed on that level in the future, and even in one fight Superman outright outsped him, blitzed him, etc.

So I feel it is pointless to bring up the DoS thing because not a single person who was shocked by his speed had speed anywhere near high level Wally West. Flash at the time wasn't anywhere near as powerful as he'd become.

So if you wanted to say HP has super speed, I'd say great when did the HP version show it?

Also do you really want to use "Superman complained about his speed" as any kind of evidence? Pretty sure Superman at one point also complained about how fast Deathstroke was. Or if he didn't outright complain he sure as hell made a comment about how impressive it was. My point is sometimes Superman says shit that doesn't make a lick of sense.

Anyway, Superman, knowing how fast humans are can be impressed when he sees a human going faster than what they supposed to. That doesn't mean the human is going faster than he can perceive.

Superman never outsped DD. Where do you get this from? Superman blitzed from behind?

HP DD is a more powerful DD in every way. He didn't lose ability, he gained more.
Anyway, HP DD covered a mile and blitzed Darkseid before Darkseid could begin to turn around. As soon as DD bust from the rubble DS started to turn around. But DD arrived before he could.

What does this post have to do with what I said? I agreed with you. Feats rule.
So defend me in the other threads where posters are making up stuff a character cam do without feats to support it. If you are going to debate me on the issue then debate others. Otherwise, your argument isn't going to fly.