Originally posted by Zack M1. Primal Monitor
2. Presence/Non
3. Great Evil Beast/Pralya
4. The A (Since it's above even Mxy)
5. The Ultimator
Imo, the only cat on the DC side that encapsulates Shooter's vision of classic Beyonder is the Primal Monitor.
Didn't Mxy erase "Heaven" angels and all? (why's the Presence above him?)
Originally posted by Galan007There's also the Endless, the Gentry, Mandrakk, Ultra, and Thought Robot to consider... Among many others.
Didn't Mxy and Mite end up floating on the Primal Monitor?
Originally posted by Galan007Given their metatextual nature, it's hard to say if they were erased or not.
4th wall breakers shouldn't be included in this list cause they don't have to adhere to basic comic book laws.
Their match-ups would have to take place in a 4th wall breaking bubble with opponents of said type.
So, 4th wall comedy aside ... yur top 5 ever?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Interesting.Imo, the only cat on the DC side that encapsulates Shooter's vision of classic Beyonder is the Primal Monitor.
If we canonize WF, then by default didn't all these cats get erased too?
Didn't Mxy and Mite end up floating on the Primal Monitor?
Regarding the Primal Monitor (or Overvoid), it is basically the page where the authors write, but it is also a conscious, perfect living void, labeled as God or Source by Grant Morrison.
What differentiates the concept of Mandrakk from the others and what makes it so far apart in power is that it is something which was thought by the Primal Monitor itself: Primal Monitor indeed thought Dax Novu, thus the latter was not something which was meant to be within creation (creation = DCU as a whole) to begin with, but something which originated on its own from the outside (PM).
Then Dax Novu got corrupted by the idea of "story" (DCU) and thus the very concept of Mandrakk was born: this is why, in SB, Mandrakk Dax Novu is described as a "self-assembling living story", and this is also why Grant Morrison himself described the whole idea of Mandrakk as the "page itself which gets pissed at the stories written on it and thus tries to erase them".
As for canonize WF, my personal opinion is that, as Galan said, TR and Mandrakk, being what they are, probably didn't get affected anyway: it was indeed said that the Circle of Monitors survived each kind of DC "reboot" and also kept record of that all, written into fictions of Earth-33.
Now you have to know that both Dax Novu and TR existed even before the Circle of Monitors: the former was the absolute first (other than most powerful) part of Primal Monitor which enetered the "flaw" (DC), when originally there was one universe, which then turned into the pre-COIE multiverse and which thus was studied and catalogued it all.
But the essence of storyline itself corrupted Dax Novu into the idea of Mandrakk, thus generating its "self-assembling hyper story".
However, before total corruption, Dax Novu created the Thought Robot, which, as its name says, it is basically the idea (= thought) of Superman shaped into a doomsday weapon made of "divine metals" (note here that "divine metals" = pure thought here, since TR is both).
Dax Novu then placed such an immense construct near the pre-COIE multiverse, scabbing over the flaw, as reported in SB: in fact, the function of Thought Robot was not only to protect the flaw (DC) itself from the ultimate evil which is Mandrakk, but also to prevent that such a concept (generated, remember, by the contact of Dax Novu with stories) could spread into the Primal Monitor itself as a whole.
Only after all of that the Primal Monitor literally thought the Circle of Monitors as an interface between itself and stories, and, as I wrote before, they kept record of every DC reboot.
Basically you have Dax Novu retired in the Abyss drinking Bleed and TR standing there, motionless and rusting, for eons, eons which correspond to every DC event that we read, by an outside-of-story point of view.
At the end of the day I think it's nearly impossible to estabilish an impartial and truthful "Top 5", however, if you ask for my personal opinion, Primal Monitor is obviously there (as it is the page, and without it nothing would be) and Dax Novu Mandrakk-TR are there as well because, for the way Grant Morrison intended them to be, I firmly believe that nothing but the Supreme Being (being it the Primal Monitor or the "author" who writes stories on it) could stand above them.
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Regarding the Primal Monitor (or Overvoid), it is basically the page where the authors write, but it is also a conscious, perfect living void, labeled as God or Source by Grant Morrison.
What differentiates the concept of Mandrakk from the others and what makes it so far apart in power is that it is something which was thought by the Primal Monitor itself: Primal Monitor indeed thought Dax Novu, thus the latter was not something which was meant to be within creation (creation = DCU as a whole) to begin with, but something which originated on its own from the outside (PM).
Then Dax Novu got corrupted by the idea of "story" (DCU) and thus the very concept of Mandrakk was born: this is why, in SB, Mandrakk Dax Novu is described as a "self-assembling living story", and this is also why Grant Morrison himself described the whole idea of Mandrakk as the "page itself which gets pissed at the stories written on it and thus tries to erase them".As for canonize WF, my personal opinion is that, as Galan said, TR and Mandrakk, being what they are, probably didn't get affected anyway: it was indeed said that the Circle of Monitors survived each kind of DC "reboot" and also kept record of that all, written into fictions of Earth-33.
Now you have to know that both Dax Novu and TR existed even before the Circle of Monitors: the former was the absolute first (other than most powerful) part of Primal Monitor which enetered the "flaw" (DC), when originally there was one universe, which then turned into the pre-COIE multiverse and which thus was studied and catalogued it all.But the essence of storyline itself corrupted Dax Novu into the idea of Mandrakk, thus generating its "self-assembling hyper story".
However, before total corruption, Dax Novu created the Thought Robot, which, as its name says, it is basically the idea (= thought) of Superman shaped into a doomsday weapon made of "divine metals" (note here that "divine metals" = pure thought here, since TR is both).
Dax Novu then placed such an immense construct near the pre-COIE multiverse, scabbing over the flaw, as reported in SB: in fact, the function of Thought Robot was not only to protect the flaw (DC) itself from the ultimate evil which is Mandrakk, but also to prevent that such a concept (generated, remember, by the contact of Dax Novu with stories) could spread into the Primal Monitor itself as a whole.Only after all of that the Primal Monitor literally thought the Circle of Monitors as an interface between itself and stories, and, as I wrote before, they kept record of every DC reboot.
Basically you have Dax Novu retired in the Abyss drinking Bleed and TR standing there, motionless and rusting, for eons, eons which correspond to every DC event that we read, by an outside-of-story point of view.At the end of the day I think it's nearly impossible to estabilish an impartial and truthful "Top 5", however, if you ask for my personal opinion, Primal Monitor is obviously there (as it is the page, and without it nothing would be) and Dax Novu Mandrakk-TR are there as well because, for the way Grant Morrison intended them to be, I firmly believe that nothing but the Supreme Being (being it the Primal Monitor or the "author" who writes stories on it) could stand above them.
great write-up, man! Where do factor The Presence in all of this?
When did Grant Morrison claim him to be God?....
The Living Tribunal wins this.....
1. He replicated both Marvel/DC aka the brothers ying-yang which we cab include Mr.Mxyzptlk.
2. The Living Tribunal had been killed by Omnipotence only aka the Beyonders and I'm 100% sure Mr.Mxyzptlk ISNT infinite in power.
Also......using yet again PIS for the beyonders doesn't mean anything here in a debate which is for the plot only....
The Beyonders>The Living Tribunal>Mr.Mxyzptlk
LT stomps.