Grandmaster vs Uatu...

Uatu takes on Grandmaster in a battle to the Death or KO with no BFR allowed...

Admittedly, I am completely conflicted on who is superior...

Both are capable in direct combat, but avoid it if possible...

Both have great matter/energy manip; who's is greater is debatable...

Grandmaster does have an advantage of being unkillable due to Death barring him from her realm (which directly contradicts that PIS with Rulk); might not be enough to be decisive though...

On the flip side, Elders have a bad habit of jobbing every so often...

Anyway, who wins?

Grandmaster, IMHO. He actually has fights and feats to gauge his power level.

I'm inclined to go with Uatu but it would not be an easy fight.

The problem with Uatu is lack of direct feats - most of what we have to go by are statements of relative power, comparisons to what rogue Watchers such as Aron have done, and various non-combat displays of his various abilities. But what is there is generally impressive and he has quite a bit of versatility.

As for Grandmaster, well the Elders tend to job out at times, or seem rather limited in power by their particular specializations, or are only depicted as really threatening when gathered in numbers or plotting. Sometimes they are portrayed as lower level cosmics, but at other times they seem up there with higher beings. For example I would consider Uata alone a "peer" of Galactus, but a little less powerful than an average G, while I would consider only a group of Elders to be close to an average Galactus. However Grandmaster is presumably one of the more powerful Elders.

So taking into account overall Marvel history, slight edge to Uatu.

Originally posted by basilisk
I'm inclined to go with Uatu but it would not be an easy fight.

The problem with Uatu is lack of direct feats - most of what we have to go by are statements of relative power, comparisons to what rogue Watchers such as Aron have done, and various non-combat displays of his various abilities. But what is there is generally impressive and he has quite a bit of versatility.

As for Grandmaster, well the Elders tend to job out at times, or seem rather limited in power by their particular specializations, or are only depicted as really threatening when gathered in numbers or plotting. Sometimes they are portrayed as lower level cosmics, but at other times they seem up there with higher beings. For example I would consider Uata alone a "peer" of Galactus, but a little less powerful than an average G, while I would consider only a group of Elders to be close to an average Galactus. However Grandmaster is presumably one of the more powerful Elders.

So taking into account overall Marvel history, slight edge to Uatu.

You have a lotta good points and I want to say Uatu as well but Im gonna have to go with Zop on this. If we just went with implied power things would get all kinds of crazy around here. Does anyone have any scans of Uatu doing anything?

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
You have a lotta good points and I want to say Uatu as well but Im gonna have to go with Zop on this. If we just went with implied power things would get all kinds of crazy around here. Does anyone have any scans of Uatu doing anything?

Originally posted by basilisk
I'm inclined to go with Uatu but it would not be an easy fight.

The problem with Uatu is lack of direct feats - most of what we have to go by are statements of relative power, comparisons to what rogue Watchers such as Aron have done, and various non-combat displays of his various abilities. But what is there is generally impressive and he has quite a bit of versatility.

As for Grandmaster, well the Elders tend to job out at times, or seem rather limited in power by their particular specializations, or are only depicted as really threatening when gathered in numbers or plotting. Sometimes they are portrayed as lower level cosmics, but at other times they seem up there with higher beings. For example I would consider Uata alone a "peer" of Galactus, but a little less powerful than an average G, while I would consider only a group of Elders to be close to an average Galactus. However Grandmaster is presumably one of the more powerful Elders.

So taking into account overall Marvel history, slight edge to Uatu.

Originally posted by zopzop
Just to nitpick, Uatu is NOT in any way a peer of Galactus. Galactus' recent showings put that notion to rest. Uatu has NOTHING that can compare to holding the line against the Galactus Engine while all the other cosmics ran for their life. He has nothing like the showing Galactus had vs FOUR Rogue Celestials.

👆

Just to follow up on your correct assessment zop, both Watchers and Elders (with the exception of Ego) have proven to be well beneath Galactus in terms of raw power...

A weakened Galactus one shot killed a Watcher when he went "Herald my Rage" (and as far as I know, there is nothing to suggest that Uatu is any more or less durable than any other average member of his race, so I am betting Galactus could do the same to him)...

And then there was the occassion where Galactus held Grandmaster and several other Elders helpless when he consummed them...

So whatever power level Uatu or Grandmaster possesses, its well beneath what Galactus has...

I honestly feel that both of them inhabit that grey area of High Trans/Low Skyfather level power...

But the more I think about it zop, I think you are correct on your initial point as well; Grandmaster has more in the way of feats to suggest that he probaly edges Uatu out...

Originally posted by basilisk
Yeah, that's the problem alright but at least we've seen on panel feats of teleportation, energy and matter manipulation, force fields, converting into energy beings and so on - even if it isn't in combat. He isn't one of those completely featless characters by any means. I also think it's fair to assume that things Aron and other rogues did can in general be replicated by Uatu unless they were shown as using artifacts of some sort.

👆

I completely agree with this...

Originally posted by zopzop
Grandmaster, IMHO. He actually has fights and feats to gauge his power level.

What feats?

Originally posted by Stoic
What feats?

Savage Hulk, Namor, Classic Dr. Strange one shotted with a flick of the wrist. Thanos himself hasn't done that.

Originally posted by zopzop
Time/Space manipulation, resurrecting the dead (even Gods), casually dismissing the Defenders :

Savage Hulk, Namor, Classic Dr. Strange one shotted with a flick of the wrist. Thanos himself hasn't done that.

👆

I wish I could find that tremendous feat of Time Manipulation Grandmaster has where he creates that supervillian team...

I even posted it for you once zop...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
👆

I wish I could find that tremendous feat of Time Manipulation Grandmaster has where he creates that supervillian team...

I even posted it for you once zop...

Meanwhile, Runner was blitzing the ever loving sh|t out of Thanos :

Thanos only saw Runner because Runner stopped and wanted to have a conversation with him.

This alone shows you the power discrepancy between Thanos and Grandmaster.

Good feats there for Grandmaster, a good reminder of his power. I've generally thought he was above guys like Thanos based on the range and extent of his powers.

But Uatu also has time/space/dimensional manipulation powers so I'm not sure he can't replicate all those feats.

Didn't they both get chumped by Red Hulk?

Found the scan of Grandmaster demonstrating great Time/Space Manipulation (as the scan says, he almost complete control of them):

@basilik

Yes, they were both jobbed out to him...

hmm, bumpity. 👆

Grandmaster wins, and Uatu is ABSOLUTELY a peer of Galactus, going back to lee and Kirby. Period.

Even together, Grandmaster and Collector didn't feel too good about incurring Galactus' wrath...

Uatu wins. Don't sleep on big head yall.

That aside, someone said all Watchers are beneath Galactus, .. that's not true.
There are a few Watchers that would annihilate regular Galactus.

Also, that Watcher that died during the "herald my rage" scene:
That Watcher just stood there like an idiot waiting to be engulfed.
... didn't even try to block the blast, or shield himself, or teleport out of there.

Uatu and Galactus have always been depicted on panel as peers.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Even together, Grandmaster and Collector didn't feel too good about incurring Galactus' wrath...

Uatu isn't Galactus.

Being a peer in power is distinct from formidability.

Skyfather level beings are competitive with Galactus level beings.