The Inquisitor vs Kas'im

How exactly does Kas'im have a physical advantage?

In terms of speed, Kas''im was potrayed as something of an equal to Bane in throwing/parraying half a dozen blows in the spqn of a heartbeat? Or that fact he (IIRC) seemed to weild 6 blades instead of two, in Bane's perspective? I doubt if the Isq has speed feats on this level, if so - mind posting any? As far as strength go....well, he doesn't really have any strength feats aside from meeting someone ws powerful as Bane head on, so I can concede for the lack of evidence there, neither is he floating in endurance/durability/pain tolerance. I stand by speed being fairly in his corner, though.

And sure; the hype is similar; but Kas' is superior

Because...?

That's really not that impressive. Given who the Inquisitor would have to content with to be hyped as "the greatest duelist in the galaxy," I hardly consider comparing Kas'im to the Brotherhood of Darkness in any way shape or form a fair comparison

Fair enough to a certain extent. As Kas'im would not be superior to Sidious or Vader had he been around during the Rebels timelime, either. Regardless, being the most deft duelist in the galaxy/Sith Lord - at any given time - is surely an impressive accolade, even if it doesn't definitively place you above cross-era opposition.

Bane collapsed the entrance.

here was absolutely zero Temple imploding, despite the hype it's constantly given by Neph.

Well, I'm just going by the wording of the author; don't shoot the messenger 'cause Drew's definition of implosions allegedly differs from the norm.. 😐

Again, I'm wondering exactly why?

Or you could give some actual feats. That works too.

One comparison I thought of: The Inquisitor b*tched out while fighting that beast Ezra set on him. Kas'im took on a Rancor and demolished it.

Demolished isn't really the word I'd use; took him forever. IIRC he dealt with it oddly; nicked it a couple dozen times until it went down.

Kas'im would've stomped Pre-Lehon Bane. That's far more than can be said for the inquisitor.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
In terms of speed, Kas''im was potrayed as something of an equal to Bane in throwing/parraying half a dozen blows in the spqn of a heartbeat? Or that fact he (IIRC) seemed to weild 6 blades instead of two, in Bane's perspective? I doubt if the Isq has speed feats on this level, if so - mind posting any? As far as strength go....well, he doesn't really have any strength feats aside from meeting someone ws powerful as Bane head on, so I can concede for the lack of evidence there, neither is he floating in endurance/durability/pain tolerance. I stand by speed being fairly in his corner, though.

And sure; the hype is similar; but Kas' is superior

There is a stark difference between being skilled at all forms and knowing counters for them, and mastering all of them, and outright adroitly learning every of moves/sequences to the point to erfection and your skill has been described as virtually immaculate. Kas'im physical mastery in terms of combativeness clearly outstrips his competitor's own, IMO. 😬

Fair enough to a certain extent. As Kas'im would not be superior to Sidious or Vader had he been around during the Rebels timelime, either. Regardless, being the most deft duelist in the galaxy/Sith Lord - at any given time - is surely an impressive accolade, even if it doesn't definitively place you above cross-era opposition.

I'm pretty sure it was the entire Temple that was destryoyed in the wake of Bane telekenetic wave, domino effect, or sans it. And even if it did only collapsed the Archway -- it's still easily more impressive than anything Isq has done. mmm

Well, I'm just going by the wording of the author; don't shoot the messenger 'cause Drew's definition of implosions allegedly differs from the norm.. 😐

Because most of the time (granted, they're many exceptions) the more powerful one is in the Force, the more you'll able to call on the Force to boost his senses, physical capabilities and precognition/premonitions. The Bane trilogy in particular, stretches the latter point profusely during the Bane vs Kas'im duel, and during Dessel's Sith training. Obviously it isn't the end all be all, but it helps in the long run during direct confrontations.

Ask, and ye shall receive. excellent

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Kas'im would've stomped Pre-Lehon Bane. That's far more than can be said for the inquisitor.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Demolished isn't really the word I'd use; took him forever. IIRC he dealt with it oddly; nicked it a couple dozen times until it went down.

That's was what I was talking about, he dances around it and cuts it to pieces with no problem. Also it says it was a short fight. The Inquisitor was backing away and just trying to drive it off. Pretty different demonstrations.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
So you're basing this entirely off of contending with Bane, who you're also basing is capable of facing Kas'im. Seem kind of circular. And as much as I'd like to post, "The Inquisitor is faster because he moves as fast as a stunted apprentice," much like Bane was, I'm not a fan of circular logic. Not to mention PoD is full of Sith and Jedi moving their sabers in "blurs." And as much as I'd like to believe Sirak is one of the greatest duelist of all time, well.

*Any* era forms a circle of judging people based on fighting each other.

Kas'im also has a rep as a war veteran and such, the students were noted to be of general high quality and most of the fights happened when their training was near-complete- even the ones Githany doesn't have trouble with, and we see a number of sith and jedi fight each other. Just from that time frame of the academy days, we have, lesse, Githany, Kas'im, Sirak, Bane, Yevra and Llokay.

Yevra, a student who's training was complete and was ready for the battlefield at Ruusan (and all the students who's training we done were said to compare well to most average sith), fell easily to Githany, who was weaker than Sirak, who was notably weaker than Bane. So before adding in Kas'im, we've got a three step chain of skill there, with fairly large steps.

Note, Kanan is a 'stunted apprentice,' for that matter.

I think people here have gone from overestimating the Bane trilogy stuff, all the way over to underestimating it.

Originally posted by Q99
Yevra, a student who's training was complete and was ready for the battlefield at Ruusan (and all the students who's training we done were said to compare well to most average sith), fell easily to Githany, who was weaker than Sirak, who was notably weaker than Bane. So before adding in Kas'im, we've got a three step chain of skill there, with fairly large steps.

But yes, I definitely agree with you here 👆

Originally posted by Nephthys
One comparison I thought of: The Inquisitor b*tched out while fighting that beast Ezra set on him. Kas'im took on a Rancor and demolished it.

Yeah but creature was invulnerable to blaster fire. And could rip through a ship's armour. So I'm pretty sure it was a lot tougher than a Rancor.

Anyway I like really the Inq but Kas'im seems to have the superior fencing accolades tbh. But in any case saber duels are decided more by power in "the force" than they are by "fencing skill".

Kas'im isn't lesser than the Inquisitor or Kanan in force power. Also I disagree about that estimation. Skill is a pretty large factor in a duel.

Kas'im was probably the best combatant of the era after Bane. Githany said that no-one could defeat Bane after he proved superior to Kas'im. The Inquisitor is decent but he's not gonna ever be the best of any era or even in the running.

Second only to Bane? How about Raskta or Zannah? DoE Bane couldn't penetrate Zannah's defense, while Kas'Im was winning against inferior version of Bane only due to Bane's lack of knowledge about his form.

IMO the era ended after the Brotherhoods destruction. But yeah, if we're including Zannah she's clearly above Kas'im. And Raskta is about on his level.

Allright, my opinion is the same at this point.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
So you're basing this entirely off of contending with Bane, who you're also basing is capable of facing Kas'im. Seem kind of circular. And as much as I'd like to post, "The Inquisitor is faster because he moves as fast as a stunted apprentice," much like Bane was, I'm not a fan of circular logic. Not to mention PoD is full of Sith and Jedi moving their sabers in "blurs." And as much as I'd like to believe Sirak is one of the greatest duelist of all time, well.

Bane and Kas'im are the top dogs of their era when it comes to lightsaber fencing, which is pretty obvious from the source material. So the right question to ask would be: Is the Inquisitor among the top lightsaber duelists of his era. The correct answer would be: No. He doesn't even make it into the top ten.

And when you want to question descriptions (e.g. people moving their lightsabers in blurs), you can make an argument. But please don't narrow it down to one side of the fight. Because pretty much everyone's claim to saberfame is based upon such statements.

What's the difference then? Regardless since the Inquisitor apparently knows counters to all these moves, why would it matter?

Because, you're not getting the point.
The saberforms in the SWU are both a set of movements and a philosophy. The numbers of movements for each form is limited. Kas'im perfected those, and devised his own (which the Inquisitor wouldn't be able to counter). Furthermore he could switch styles on the fly in the midst of combat. If the Inquisitor needs 10 seconds to identify a style, this gives Kas'im a card blanche to switch his style after seeing that he is met with "perfect counters" and take the Inquisitor off-guard with that.

Furthermore, an ability of a combatant in terms of lightsaber ability is not just determined by his technical finesse. The Force does heavily come into play. It enables combatants to predict attacks on the one hand but also to "go beyond forms" in their attacks, by giving the fencer the ability to intuitivly capitalize on weaknesses in his opponents defense. The fight of Bane and Kas'im is a prime example of that: While Kas'im is - without doubt - the technical more refined combatant, Bane forces him back because of his higher force potential. But in the moment Kas'im switches to wielding dual blades against his opponent, Bane is driven back and almost killed by Kas'im "overloading" his defense (by giving Bane more options than his opponent could cover in terms of counters).

Following from there, only two questions remain to be answered:

a) Is the Inquisitor technically on par with Kas'im, who perfected all forms of lightsaber combat and when on to become even better for decades after doing so? The answer: Nope.

b) Is the Inquisitor better than Bane [at the time Kas'im fought him] in the Force, which would be a prerequisite for being able to defeat Kas'im in combat? I don't see a single reason, why we should assume that he is.

From there, the result of this versus paring can be determined rather easily.

Right, but treating Kas'im as if he's super powerful because he can block Bane's TK, with was breaking apart an already ruined temple's base, therefore making Kas'im also a great duelist, kind of irks me, giving the EU is full of certainly talented and powerful individuals, such Ben, Vitiate, Bane(in PoD) that weren't the greatest duelist just because they were more powerful.

Kas'im is a dueling monster because of his unparalleled technical ability coupled with a at least decent Force Mastery. And just for your information: The Force Wave that finally brought the Temple down on Kas'im was targeted on the Sith, who survived:

"The concussive blast had enough power to shatter every bone in Kas’im’s body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid. But at the last possible instant he threw up a shield to protect himself from the attack."

The point is not, that Bane could brake down the temple. It's the fact that this just happened as a side effect of his force attack directed against Kas'im, who had enough force control to actually block that kind of attack. And, yes, that is quite more than the Inquisitor has shown in terms of force mastery.