BLAIR WIND vs DECTER (mid-herald tournament)

Blair Wind wrote on Nov 8th, 2015 07:43 PM:

Blair Wind Team:
Hawkman
Absorbing Man
Hank Pym

Good luck Decter. 👆

Alright, so my team seems to have a fairly obvious plan. I can’t really do much in the limited prep we have, but I need to set the stage, because the plan has layers to it that may not seem evident at first glance - and Hawkman is one of the most confusing characters in all of fiction. I know there are a lot of scans incoming - but all of them are important. Hope this helps judges.

Hawkman History Lesson

You see, Carter Hall is the reincarnated Prince Khufu and he remembers everything from everyone he has ever been - that’s thousands of versions of himself throughout history. He also remembers all of Kators memories, a Hawkman who wasn’t a part of the reincarnation process, but was merged with Carter before they died as one. Kator, for his part, remembered all the memories of all the Hawk’s, including Carter’s memories due to the merger. They both died merged together, but Carter was pulled out of limbo to face Onimar precisely because he had the knowledge about Nth metal that no other Thanagarian had.

Now, Nth metal is the reason he’s being reincarnated AND the reason he can remember all of his lives.
http://s125.photobucket.com/user/DCHawks_photo/media/hm-38-05.jpg.html

He remembers all his past lives - even specific details:
http://s125.photobucket.com/user/DCHawks_photo/media/Hawkman_v4_16_013.jpg.html

Carter comes back to life and states he remembers everything from everyone he’s ever been - including Kator Holl
http://tinypic.com/r/14p6hv/9
http://tinypic.com/r/w7y1zr/9
http://tinypic.com/r/mc6cco/9
http://tinypic.com/r/21kii6e/9

Martian Manhunter tries to read merged Hawkman’s mind - and his unique psychic makeup (having thousands of lives in his mind) has a dangerous effect on him
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-032-10.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-032-11.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-032-12.jpg

Nth Metal: Psycho-Receptive
Why is all this information on the fact that Nth metal enhanced Hawkman’s psychic reserves important? Because when he was Prince Khufu, he actually absorbed all the racial memories of Thanagar - which included the knowledge lost to Thanagar on how to use Nth metal to it’s fullest potential, and he got that knowledge from the Nth Metal itself.
http://oi64.tinypic.com/11vqq08.jpg

Not only that, but it shows us that Nth Metal can store psychic energy because it is psycho-receptive. In fact, Carter explains to Kendra that the Nth Metal can store and release psychic energy - and considering that they have thousands of memories to draw from, it can put a real hurting on people (and he mentions that Onimar Synn applied the same principle in battle).
http://i68.tinypic.com/2janon6.jpg

Here is Kendra actually doing this:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/JSA017-16.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/JSA017-17.jpg

This is why Hawkman was brought back to life in the first place - he’s the only person the Thanagarians knew of that could face Onimar Synn. So they rescued him from Limbo (he was dead at the time, but they needed his knowledge). He’s the only other being who knew Nth Metal’s secrets and how to use them as well as Onimar Synn.

And according to him, having the right quantity and knowledge, Nth Metal grants control over the four fundamental forces of the universe
http://s225.photobucket.com/user/MachineMan616/media/24-17.jpg.html

Nth Metal: Normal Levels

So, this begs the question, what can Nth metal do with just a small amount? It gives Hawkman a
- super healing factor
- enhanced strength. A pure piece of Nth Metal formed as a gauntlet (a few pounds) was enough to knock Superman out (sort of. Well, it hit him really really hard, but he wanted to be taken in)
- the above feat also shows us that Hawkman knows how to draw power from the Earth’s magnetic core - that’s innate EM control.
- enhanced sight/senses (enough to see Flash when trying to be invisible)
- flight due to anti-gravity
- Absorbs psychic energy
- protects from extreme temperatures (what allows the hawks to travel in space with no protection other than a breathing apparatus)
- Protects against magic - here an agent of Onimar’s stops Dr. Fate from spellcasting via NthMetal
http://tinypic.com/r/2d0nsw4/9
-- disrupts energy attacks - here the nth metal disrupts Kanjor Ro's energy field (drawn from the fabric of space/time) when Superman, Wonder Woman and even John Stewart couldn't break or manipulate the energy

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/jla_19_12.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/jla_19_13.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/jla_19_14.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/jla_19_17.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/jla_19_20.jpg

And here the Nth Metal disrupts Swashbuckler's powerful energy swords
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Trinity10p20.jpg

So, I really hope Decter tries to ram me in light form. He’d just disrupt himself.

Nth Metal: Grand Unified Theory.

Now, that’s all super impressive - but what was Onimar Synn able to do with the right quantity and knowledge?
http://s225.photobucket.com/user/MachineMan616/media/24-17.jpg.html

Negates Strong Force - Synn with a gesture severs the atom bonds holding Sandman together
http://s225.photobucket.com/user/MachineMan616/media/24-14.jpg.html

Electromagnetism - Synn actually removes Flash’s frictionless surface - something granted by the Speedforce - nearly burning him alive. Dr. Light has been facing the Flashes for years - he’s NEVER done something like this.
http://s225.photobucket.com/user/MachineMan616/media/24-13.jpg.html

Psychic Blast - You’ll remember how Carter explained that Onimar Synn applied a principle of using psychic energy against them.
http://s225.photobucket.com/user/MachineMan616/media/24-16.jpg.html

Gravity Manipulation - With merely a gesture, Synn stops Black Adam in mid-air and sends him flying from the planet onto one of Thanagar’s moons.
http://s225.photobucket.com/user/MachineMan616/media/24-15.jpg.html

Power Dampening - Even without Synn present, the nth metal still keeps Flash’s aura out of sync and prevents Dr.Fate from casting any spells.
http://s225.photobucket.com/user/MachineMan616/media/25-08.jpg.html

So, with Hawkman’s embedded knowledge of the lost arts of Nth metal we have access to the same broad range of powers as Onimar Synn - we just need the right amount of it.

Touch Myself and Grow Big

That’s where Absorbing Man and Hank Pym come in. Absorbing Man can become anything he wills himself to become (usually by touching it, sometimes from a distance) - but he fully becomes it. Outer skin, inner body, his organs, his brain, all of it - he fully becomes whatever he wants to become. And while Creel himself is an idiot, he seems to gain an innate ability to actually utilize powers once he has them.

So the amalgam of my characters touches the Nth Metal Hawkman carries and fully transforms himself into a Nth Metal being.

At the same time, Pym can go from giant sized to small enough to go into the microverse in less than a second - and can reverse the process as well.
http://tinypic.com/r/1zppagw/9
http://tinypic.com/r/hvtllh/9
http://tinypic.com/r/260evqt/9

So I do like Darksaint says and:

I touch myself. I grow big

If the tiny amount of Nth Metal gives Hawkman the physical strength and speed to hang (not win, but hang) with beings like Black Adam and Wonder Woman, imagine a giant made entirely of the metal. But I don't need to get physical because...

Cont....

Blair Wind wrote on Nov 8th, 2015 07:52 PM:

Dr. Henry Pym, Scientific Adventurer, Scientist Supreme, wi…..Decter Beater

....Hank Pym is a scientific genius. If I wanted to apply the fundamental forces of the universe, it would at least be really nice to have someone who understood them on a scientific level. Hawkman may have the knowledge of how to utilize Nth Metal, but both him and Onimar Synn would use the power as brutes. Hank Pym will allow me to leverage the same powers elegantly, like a surgeon.

Magic-Blocking
This is the same guy who extrapolated how to block Asgardian magic from a magical power dampening item Loki gave Osborn - because it’s all just energy to him.
http://tinypic.com/r/157lk0o/9

Telepathy and Teleportation Blockers
He created telepathy and teleportation blockers that worked on the Cuckoo’s, Pixie, and on Emma Frost when she was a Phoenix, preventing them from teleporting, mind reading or projecting thoughts (in the second scan they are being facetious, it was turned off on purpose but they had to act like they had no idea in front of the camera’s watching them). Again, all that’s needed is the proper counter-frequency. Remember, in the Marvel universe, psionics are governed by the EM spectrum (Iron Man and Magneto have both proven as such before).
http://tinypic.com/r/213onmd/9
http://tinypic.com/r/30vnmh5/9
http://tinypic.com/r/ncmmn6/9

Black Hole
And he’s created black hole devices before. You know, those things made via gravity.
http://i.imgur.com/19HqYJR.jpg

And also created the Infinite Avengers Mansion: a feat dealing with space/time and quantum mechanics, the body of scientific principles that explains the behavior of matter and its interactions with energy on the scale of atoms and subatomic particles. It's a fundamental branch of physics concerned with processes involving, for example, atoms and photons. This guy made them his ***** and created the Infinite Mansion. Imagine what he can now do!
http://tinypic.com/r/n4bexu/9

Giving Hank Pym control over the Grand Unified Theory makes for a scary opponent. One who is made of Nth Metal - entirely inside and outside. One that can absorb psychic and magical energy. That can tear electromagnetic forces asunder or disrupt energy drawn from space/time. That can casually throw a superman level opponent into an opposing celestial body. One smart enough to be able to counteract magical energy, shut down psychics and teleporters, and create black holes. One who’s made his greatest scientific discovery by studying sub-atomic particles and has suddenly been given control of Gravity, the entire EM spectrum, and the Strong and Weak forces.

Strategy
I touch myself and grow giant sized (say 300ft?)
I have access to the four fundamental forces of nature and I pour my own psychic memories into my Nth Metal Form.

My plan? Impose my will on them. We know the enemy has psychic abilities, can control and turn into light, and has the power of the Fantastic Four.

Hank knows how to muddle with telepathy at even the Phoenix level, can stop teleporters, can control the entire EM spectrum, and can control gravity. Let’s work with that.

1) Power Dampening
I close my eyes and simply power dampen the entire EM field around the battlefield - the same way the Nth Metal prison stopped Flash from using his aura and Dr. Fate from spellcasting. The same way Hank stopped the Cuckoo’s and Phoenix from using mind control/telepathy or letting Pixie teleport. That, at the very very least, is going to cause a hiccup with both Cable (psionic) and Dr. Light’s powers.

2) Gravity makes Black Holes
I then make gravity all around us heavy - I’m going to grab him like Onimar Synn grabbed Black Adam (without looking at him, just felt him with gravity). If Nth Metal allows for gravity control from a planet to a moon then the .5 mile(?) distance all around me should be absolutely no problem. And then I’m going to bust a black hole on his chest.

And since Black Holes are these pesky little things that don’t let light escape, he’s going to have a really big problem getting out of this alive. If he turns into light, well he has two problems - I just power dampened the EM field so it’s very probable he can’t. Second, that does him no good as the black hole will still just suck him dry.

But if by some chance he does turn into light, remember that if Nth metal can tear the Speedforce’s protection from the Flash, it can tear Dr. Light apart as well.

Passive Defenses
Now, if he manages to hit me with a psychic bolt - I’ll just absorb it. With normal amounts of Nth Metal this wouldn’t be possible, but since I’m now completely Nth Metal (including my brain) - it’s the only option.
If he tries to mentally read or control my mind, he’s going to get hit with thousands of lifetime’s compressed in one mind, stored in the Nth Metal, as payback.
And if he tries to hit me with energy (or even worse for him, he tries to ram me himself in his light form) it/he will just be disrupted. This includes invisible force fields from the Skrull.

And if things got physical, considering I’m a giant with extremely enhanced strength - if the Claw of Horus (a few pounds of pure Nth Metal) can basically knock Superman out, imagine a 300ft giant (already strong) made entirely of Nth metal (made even stronger) - I can straight up punch through his shields or him. In addition to the strength, the Nth Metal Form would just disrupt anything he throws my way.

To Recap:
I touch myself (Nth Metal) and grow giant sized (say 300ft?)
I Power Dampen the EM Field (affecting his psychic abilities and his light control)
I grab him (amalgam, 2 and 1, or all three separate doesn’t matter) with heavy gravity and explode a black hole right on his chest(s).

If anything unexpected should happen, well, I can always go micro-verse small and re-calibrate my plans.

In the immortal words of Hank Pym:

Decter wrote on Nov 9th, 2015 04:18 PM:

New Opening
As you should already know my picks are Cable, Dr. light, and Super Skrull. I chose each one cause they are either a favorite of mine or I believe they need to step in the spotlight to get a little respect.

So let's start shall we?[size]

Cable + Dr. Light + Super Skurll =

[size=4]Omega Level Threat: Doctor Skrull

Since prep was only to get shields up I will take advantage of that with my boy super skrull. How strong are his shields?

Takes blows from Mjolnir (Instantly making these shields as well)
http://i.imgur.com/5q7DrjP.jpg

Strong enough to bounce back Captain Marvel’s blast
http://i.imgur.com/RUjQmyU.png

And can even block attacks from the mighty Silver Surfer
http://i.imgur.com/AbR9cD7.png

Everyone/Thing listed here is far above anything Blair WInd has to offer

Now with that out of the way I would like to discuss my strategy. Super skrull (as we all know) has the ability to turn COMPLETY invisible.
http://i.imgur.com/q7YqXXP.gif

While Invisible (with shields up and shields are a part of Skrull that can move to his will). I teleport from where I was to a different spot to make my location much safer. Now my opponent doesn't have a clue where I am, and doesn't even know my location anymore.
http://i.imgur.com/uDIp8PE.png
http://i.imgur.com/QdK4t39.png

And the feat of skrull moving and controlling his shielding
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...1389989-ss7.jpg

Next thing is simple. Keep him busy, confused, and wear him down with illusions while also trying to mind rape him at the same time.

Illusions
https://i.imgur.com/flcXvv2.jpg

Demonstrating his high level TP
https://i.imgur.com/ybWkeoD.jpg

Not only that I can absorb the Light out of your eyes causing you to go blind
http://i.imgur.com/jTbCYHU.png

And with him distracted, confused, and continually being exhausted I can easily blast him with Dr. Light causing him to absorb the Light. Why is this important?

Dr. Light has control over ALL light
http://i.imgur.com/HDHcfM4.png

Blair’s flaw with Absorbing man
Creel is a great choice and I love the team he put together. But Creel’s power is his greatest weakness. Even if he absorbs the Nth metal (Which He’ll probably due) Creel on more than one occasion absorbs multiple things against his will. Here Spiderman makes him absorb two materials causing him to explode.
http://s5.postimg.org/y2m8v1hlj/MKSP18_15.jpg
While already having an element absorbed Deadpool made him absorb toilet paper
http://static.fjcdn.com/large/pictu...543_5162214.jpg

So what exactly is stopping me from using Dr. Lights abilities and turning you into light? Seeing how your strategy will probably consist of growing you won’t be a hard target. And even if you shrink instead of grow, Cable can still find you via telepathy or I can simply use an omnidirectional blast to find you.
http://s593.photobucket.com/user/Ma...6b0b76.jpg.html

So let’s go over it real quick.

1. I'm invisible
2. Powerful shield that I can instantly raise at any time (More about shields later on)
3. My position is unknown allowing me to strike at any moment without any worry
4. Teleportation allows me to instantly travel the battlefield
5. I'm invisible
6. My enemy will be distracted by Illusions
7. His brain constantly being attack by Cables hardcore TP
8. He’s blind
9. His body absorbs, and when he absorbs Dr. Lights attack he will be at my Mercy

Cable + Dr. Light + Super Skrull =Doctor Skrull

Decent name. I suck at coming up with them. 👆 Some of your scans are broken btw, but I understood most of it. Also, fair warning - copy your stuff before you hit preview (if you preview) to re-paste it. It's not saving content in the reply box once you hit the preview button to be able to edit it as you go on

Since prep was only to get shields up I will take advantage of that with my boy super skrull.

👆 He’s got some impressive shields. The problem is if I touch you, the Nth metal would disrupt the energy. They can hold up to a lot of force, but not against something that negates them.

While Invisible (with shields up and shields are a part of Skrull that can move to his will). I teleport from where I was to a different spot to make my location much safer. Now my opponent doesn't have a clue where I am, and doesn't even know my location anymore.
http://i.imgur.com/uDIp8PE.png
http://i.imgur.com/QdK4t39.png

Dr. Light doesn’t really teleport - he just turns into light and then very quickly goes to another location. It’s not the same as say Nightcrawler or Spot. It’s pretty effective, the only problem is that to do that he’d need to turn into light. Unfortunately, my very first move is to negate that possibility.

Next thing is simple. Keep him busy, confused, and wear him down with illusions while also trying to mind rape him at the same time.

Illusions and mind raping, eh? Too bad that over and over again, it’s been proven that telepathy works within the EM field by Iron Man, Magneto, and others. Here's just one example

Now, telepathy and Anti-TP devices have grown more sophisticated since then and Pym himself has created anti-telepathy devices so advanced P5 Emma didn't even realize she was being blocked - so he knows exactly how to accomplish my goals. So when I dampen the EM spectrum, I’m hitting your two heavy hitters - Cable and Dr. Light - right at their core.

Besides, if you were to try and touch my mind with telepathy, you’d be dealing with a huge psychic backlash leaving yourself wide open.

Creel is a great choice and I love the team he put together. But Creel’s power is his greatest weakness. Even if he absorbs the Nth metal (Which He’ll probably do) Creel on more than one occasion absorbs multiple things against his will. Here Spiderman makes him absorb two materials causing him to explode.

So what exactly is stopping me from using Dr. Lights abilities and turning you into light?

That’s a scan of him willingly taking on that property against Spiderman. But yes, with CIS on, Absorbing Man has done some stupid shit. Except that as time has gone on, he’s learned not to absorb properties. And CIS is off for the tournament. Plus, Nth Metal disrupts all energy and since I dampened the field, you wouldn't have any blasts hitting me anyway.

So let’s go over it real quick.
1. Go invisible - AOE Dampened Field
2. Turn on Shields - Can do
3. Teleport - NEGATED
4. Create Illusions - won’t affect me as I’m dampening the field
5. Attack with Cable’s telepathy to mind rape him - NEGATED or causes BACKLASH
6. Control the light in his eyes to blind him - CLOSED EYES
9. Try to blast him until he becomes light. - NEGATED or DISRUPTED.

On the other hand, my plan completely negates the majority of your powerset and then hits you with gravity + a black hole. KO (taking powers away) to Fatality (black hole to the chest).

I honestly love the scan of a 1000 minds hurting Martain manhunter, but there seems to be a problem here. Martian Manhunter has trouble reading a thousand mines, but the thing is Cable read billions including high level telepaths like Emma, Jean Grey AND xiaver. Manhunter is known for being a jobber, only a couple thousand mind hurting him seems like a low feat tbh.

Although Hawkman has past lifes and can use the nth metal as well as Onimar Synn, he can't really use feats of them doing stuff as proof. Nate grey and cable are technically the "same" person, and super skrull and Doctor light can use their powers just as good (sometimes proving better) as the fantastic four and Kimiyo. But the rules state they must do the feats that they themselves have accomplished. Not their past lives or anyone with similiar and equal power.

Also with that strength feat. That wasn't just a piece of nth metal. That guantlet had the power to amp off the energies of earth. It was specially designed weapon with added abilities no other nth has never done before. It's also an amp which isn't allowed.

I'm not too afraid of his transmitters and BH devices
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vw1YGi2f-D4/VPHdk-vastI/AAAAAAAIPhQ/c-mIz66vdZk/s1600/p34_9%2Bcopy.jpg

Here Pym states that Emma had the ability to override them, and the only reason she didn't was because she was unaware. Cable actually will be aware once he figures out what's wrong. Also Cable has proved to be the better telepath since Emma and xiaver couldn't resist his TP. Pym also states that he installed the Scarmblers around the campus, this shows he needs a little bit of time to set them up. Time you simply don't have. Pym has indeed made black holes devices as well. But that's not standard equipment. So although a good strategy it's considered moot since it isn't standard gear.

It wouldn't really matter anyway since with Cables TK he can EASILY tear them apart
https://i.imgur.com/Ue1vnxo.jpg

And a lot of those feats are onimar's not Hawkmans. And a lot of those feats are stuff Hawkman has never been able to do in the past.

You also say you'll grab me. This is assuming you can tag me (more on this later)

Originally posted by Blair Wind

I can always go micro-verse small and re-calibrate my plans

Originally posted by Blair Wind

] Decent name. I suck at coming up with them._ Some of your scans are broken btw, but I understood most of it. Also, fair warning - copy your stuff before you hit preview (if you preview) to re-paste it. It's not saving content in the reply box once you hit the preview button to be able to edit it as you go on

Thanks! I'll try to fix some of those scans when I can. Not sure if it's my phone but a lot of yours keep giving the same panels. But in the meantime.....

How exactly are you going to disrupt my shields???? To my understanding Nth metal has never disrupted Hyperspace before.

"Except that as time has gone on, he’s learned not to absorb properties"

False. He's learned not to absorb certain properties. It's the main reason I showed that toilet paper scan, he learned how not to absorb certain properties. Not all.

As you see here Super skrull has just more than the F4s powers. He also has anti matter
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/24026/1389985-ss1.jpg

Nth metal to my knowledge has never been able to counter this. My plan? Well the blast radius is about the size of a small mountain (scan coming soon). And Absorbing man is still learning how to control his powers. Even at his best he can't help but absorb. My point? What happens when he gets caught up in properties that completey surround him?

http://s7.postimg.org/tyowkawez/SH_23_DCP_0038.jpg

He absorbs them

Now let's discuss his gravity argument. Although Hawkman has never preformed feats like it let's just for instance say he can. Cable's Tk is much much stronger. And I'm willing to say his TK can shield him from the gravity. How strong is his TK?

He has the ability to move planets
http://i.imgur.com/eGryWQ6.jpg

Break surfers board
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/cabledeadpool102005streetsamur4.jpg

So let's recap
1. A thousand minds are nothing to billions
2. Hawkman can't share feats just because he's as good as someone. That allows me to share feats with Nate, F4, and kimiyo
3. The only real strength feat brought up was with a certain guantlet that amped his strength with the energies of Earth. That isn't allowed. Hawkman didn't do it either the guantlet did all the work
4._ Nothing counters Skrulls anti matter and hyperspace energies
5. The only real impressive one he TP blocked was Emma who wasn't even paying close attention. Nor using anything close to the power she had at that point
6. His transmitters and black hole devices (both stating to need to be installed) can easily be torn apart by Cables TK. They are also not part of standard gear.
7. Hawkman hasn't preformed most of the feats given by Blair
8. My guy is extremely faster (more backing it up later)
9. Shrinking causes him to lose Nth metal making him more vulnerable. And Cable has feats on Celluar, genetic, atomic, and molecular scales
10. Creel has learned how to not absorb certain properties. I use none of those making the point.
11. I can easily blast him with Anti matter causing him to absorb it. Cause we all know what happens when he gets surrounded by a large portion of properties.
12. Cables TK is much more powerful than his gravity control
13. More instantaneous shields
14. I'm still invisible
15. After destroying the transmitters I can teleport with cable (scans coming soon)
16. Can still create illusions
17. Mind rape is still a go
18. Now I can blast him with Anti matter till he turns
19. It turns out power scaling isn't allowed and only feats are allowed. So the scaling to 300 feet is mute

Blair Wind Post #2

I honestly love the scan of a 1000 minds hurting Martian manhunter, but there seems to be a problem here….Cable read billions.

Cable’s pretty powerful - but Nth metal absorbs psychic energy just as much as it absorbs or disrupts pretty much any energy source it’s ever encountered. You won’t be able to actually hurt me with mindbolts or read my mind telepathically - and that all assumes that your psychic powers are even working since I essentially shut them down.

Although Hawkman has past lives and can use the nth metal as well as Onimar Synn, he can't really use feats of them doing stuff as proof. Nate grey and cable are technically the "same" person, and super skrull and Doctor light can use their powers just as good (sometimes proving better) as the fantastic four and Kimiyo. But the rules state they must do the feats that they themselves have accomplished. Not their past lives or anyone with similar and equal power.

That’s all fine, but Hawkman is an exception. He doesn’t just have access to the same powers as Onimar, but the same knowledge on how to use them. It’s intrinsic to the very reason that they (thanagar) required him. He’s just never had enough of the stuff to do what Synn has done - he even states as much here:
http://s125.photobucket.com/user/DCHawks_photo/media/DCComics-Hawkman2002001-21.jpg.html

But each time he has more than normal, he’s never ever had a problem using it’s more exotic powers (see below, on the Superman punch for an example of this).

The fact of the matter is, I’m using the nth metal I own and giving Hawkman access to more Nth metal - enough to be able to do the same things Onimar Synn was. Only better because Hank Pym is a scientific genius.

Also with that strength feat. That wasn't just a piece of nth metal. That gauntlet had the power to amp off the energies of earth. It was specially designed weapon with added abilities no other nth has never done before. It's also an amp which isn't allowed.

Claw of Horus: Forged by Egyptians
What? The Claw of Horus was specially made from the exact same Nth metal that Khufu made his other accessories from - it was simply the largest single piece of Nth metal they had. Here, it’s shown that the Egyptians reforged it to fit the shape of a gauntlet.
http://s125.photobucket.com/user/DCHawks_photo/media/jsa22-10.jpg.html
http://s125.photobucket.com/user/DCHawks_photo/media/jsa22-11.jpg.html
http://s125.photobucket.com/user/DCHawks_photo/media/jsa22-15.jpg.html

Superman Punched by the Planet
Because of that, it has properties that seem “special” to it, but it’s just more of the same exact thing that all Nth metal can do. In the case of punching Superman, it was drawing from it’s control of the EM spectrum and using that energy to punch with enough force to essentially “hit you with the planet”.
http://s125.photobucket.com/user/DCHawks_photo/media/sb-04-19.jpg.html

It actually helps prove the fact that Hawkman with access to large quantities of Nth metal (read: now my entire body) can easily and fundamentally utilize Nth metal’s more exotic properties since he’s done so in the past. There should no longer be any doubt that Hawkman has access to all of the same powers as Onimar Synn (read: GRAND UNIFIED THEORY) since I now have a larger supply than Hawkman has ever had access to.

No Tech, Just Phenomenal Cosmic Power!!

I'm not too afraid of his transmitters and BH devices. Here Pym states that Emma had the ability to override them, and the only reason she didn't was because she was unaware. Cable actually will be aware once he figures out what's wrong. Pym also states that he installed the Scramblers around the campus, this shows he needs a little bit of time to set them up. Time you simply don't have. Pym has indeed made black holes devices as well. But that's not standard equipment. So although a good strategy it's considered moot since it isn't standard gear.

Umm….what? I showed evidence that Pym knows the scientific method by which to block telepathy, teleportation, and create a black hole to indicate that given the innate power Nth Metal has over the Grand Unified Theory, he’d be able to effortlessly apply that knowledge to it’s desired outcome. I’m not placing technology around the battlefield - I’m skipping the middle man and going straight to nullifying your powers.

And a lot of those feats are onimar's not Hawkmans. And a lot of those feats are stuff Hawkman has never been able to do in the past.

Hawkman, with his gauntlet, was able to effortlessly pull in power from the Earth’s core. Giving him access to the Nth Metal + Pym’s smarts is enough to allow me to utilize the Grand Unified Theory. And my game plan is completely different than what Onimar Synn did - I’m just using him as a basis to show what Nth Metal allows you to do.

I can always go micro-verse small and re-calibrate my plans
Horrible idea since Cable has feats of him controlling stuff on genetic, atom, celluar, and molecular levels. All not even being his full power

That was only said if something were to go wrong in my plans. Everything went according to plan, so my original plan stands - but the micro-verse is sub-atomic (http://marvel.com/universe/Microverse) so I really doubt Cable could do much of anything if I desired to go down that small.

How exactly are you going to disrupt my shields???? To my understanding Nth metal has never disrupted Hyperspace before.

Nth Metal: Absorber. Disrupter. Ruiner of Plans
It’s what Nth Metal does. Considering my entire body is now Nth Metal, I’d just be passing through like a hot knife through butter. Here the nth metal disrupts Kanjor Ro's energy field (drawn from the fabric of space/time) when Superman, Wonder Woman and even John Stewart couldn't break or manipulate the energy.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/jla_19_11.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/jla_19_12.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/jla_19_13.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/jla_19_14.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/jla_19_17.jpg
http://s267.photobucket.com/user/darkseidres2/media/jla_19_20.jpg.html

My plan? Well the blast radius is about the size of a small mountain (scan coming soon). And Absorbing man is still learning how to control his powers. Even at his best he can't help but absorb. My point? What happens when he gets caught up in properties that completely surround him? He absorbs them.

I think you’re missing the point that the Nth Metal absorbs energy. Or disrupts it. Absorbing Man isn’t going to be dealing with it himself, the metal will do the job for him. It’s absorbed magic, psychic energy, energy blasts, solar energy, it controls gravity, the EM spectrum, and Strong/Weak force.

Decter's Nullified Plan
Your original plan was to bombard me with Light Blasts and Psychic Blasts - but I nullified those abilities (with my control over the EM spectrum), and even without that step, the Nth Metal just absorbs both of those. I’m untouchable by your character. You’re best bet is to try and get physical with me, and even then if a gauntlet was able to outpunch Superman, how much is an entire body of Nth metal going to be able to do? I'd be like the One Punch Man - and your body would disintegrate.

Now let's discuss his gravity argument. And I'm willing to say his TK can shield him from the gravity. How strong is his TK?

He has the ability to move planets
http://i.imgur.com/eGryWQ6.jpg

That’s the most blatant hyperbole I’ve ever seen. It didn’t happen.

On the other hand, sufficient Nth Metal proves to be able to move, via gravity, a Superman-level being to another celestial body (think about the size of that. The distance from our Earth to our Moon is 238,900 miles. That’s a long phucking road trip).
http://s225.photobucket.com/user/MachineMan616/media/24-15.jpg.html

Besides, you won’t have your psychic abilities (dampened EM spectrum field) and all I’m looking to do is hold you in place for a second with the full weight of gravity I can muster (which, if the Gauntlet can punch with the strength of the planet using magnetism, imagine a full body of Nth Metal using the force of gravity - if all things are equal, I’m pushing against you with the force of multiple planets). Then using that gravity to create a black hole.

YouTube video

Then you die. Sorry Decter, I liked you.

-nth metal can absorb psychic energy
-Shut them down

Bishop and Havok can absorb energy. You know what they all three have in common? They all have a limit. I have not seen one feat on a level of Cable's to suggest otherwise. Also Pym already stated Emma could have overpowered it if she would have known, cable is by far a better telepath then her.

-Hawkman is an exception with sharing feats since he has knowledge as Onimar

No he is not. Gundam already made it clear that they must do it themselves in order for it to be valid. All the green lanterns have the exact knowledge on how to use their rings. But you still can't share feats. Hal Jordan has beaten far more knowledgeable and experienced GLs before. In fact it was stated that super skrull not only had the powers of the F4, but was more powerful with them as well. Doesn't matter since it would still be sharing feats if I used one of theirs.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Interchanging Feats: You are in control of the character, but you are also confined to what that character has accomplished historically.

You can't borrow feats from someone else, even if your similar characters.

-The claw was thr largest piece of nth metal he had ever had
-Superman hit with a planet

Okay after doing my own research it would seem I had been mislead. Doesn't really matter tho. The fact remains that Hawkman had to amp himself to that level. It had to draw power from the Earth's core amping the guantlet to even get close to superman level. So the one strength feat you actually posted was of him amping himself (which isn't allowed) to hurt superman.

-I just showed proof that Pym knows the scientific method to block telepathy and teleportation and create black holes

You also posted him himself stating that he needed to install them as well. Gravity makes black holes yes but Hawkman doesn't have a single feat of making Gravity anywhere near the level of a black hole. Um.....how is he blocking my TP without his transmitters? By absorbing the energy with nth metal? You said he had transmitters (useless as he even stated emma to be able to overpower it) but now your saying your not using tech? I'm a bit confused on this post so I'll go over it later.

-Hawkman was able to pull from the Earths core
-Using onimar as a basis of what I can do

It doesn't matter how much you give Hawkman cause he lacks the legitment feats. You don't get to scale, they must have historically done it themselves. Rules even state so.

-Kanjor Ro's energy field (drawn from the fabric of space/time) when Superman, Wonder Woman and even John Stewart couldn't break or manipulate the energy.

The scans posted aren't working for me. So I can't read. Just send them to me via PM from different links so you don't have to correct during one of your post. Also you do realize space and hyperspace aren't the same thing right?

-I think you’re missing the point that the Nth Metal absorbs energy. Or disrupts it. Absorbing Man isn’t going to be dealing with it himself, the metal will do the job for him. It’s absorbed magic, psychic energy, energy blasts, solar energy, it controls gravity, the EM spectrum, and Strong/Weak force.

I won't deny is disrupts energy but the only thing it actually counters is Dr. Light. Half the stuff you posted was not onimar. Even if Hawkman has the same knowledge it doesn't matter. He must have historically done it himself.

-I’m untouchable by your character. You’re best bet is to try and get physical with me, and even then if a gauntlet was able to outpunch Superman, how much is an entire body of Nth metal going to be able to do? I'd be like the One Punch Man - and your body would disintegrate.

Not really. You have one good TP resistant feat I've seen so far and it was because manhunter got hurt by thousands of minds. You seem to forget Cable read Billions INCLUDING top level telepaths like Emma, Jean, and Xiaver. Also that one guantlet had to amp of the Earths core increasing Hawkmans physically. Drawing from the Earth's core and growing BOTH break the rules.

Originally posted by psycho gundan Notes: Amping is a state of empowerment fueled by some source source, that increases a characters physical prowess or ability.

-That’s the most blatant hyperbole I’ve ever seen. It didn’t happen

You know what else didn't happen? Half the shit your tryna pull with Hawkman. I posted that for a reason to draw you out. Writers said he had the power to but he never did. Writers said Hawkman has the same knowledge but he never preformed even half the stuff you posted.

-Besides, you won’t have your psychic abilities (dampened EM spectrum field) and all I’m looking to do is hold you in place for a second with the full weight of gravity I can muster (which, if the Gauntlet can punch with the strength of the planet using magnetism, imagine a full body of Nth Metal using the force of gravity - if all things are equal, I’m pushing against you with the force of multiple planets). Then using that gravity to create a black hole.

Hawkman never showed to be able to dampen the EM spectrum field to stop someone like cable from hurting him.

Hawkman never showed gravity control that could hold down someone with hulk like strength. Make him fly around using anti gravity? Sure. Hold him down by strengthening it? No.

Hawkman has never made a black hole.

All the things you listed were from him amping from the Earths core or stuff he didn't do himself.

Fixed scan of him breaking surfers board
http://i.imgur.com/9DCyGBh.jpgchttp://i.imgur.com/9DCyGBh.jpg

Now as I said before Cable's TK is WAY more powerful then anything Hawkman has done with his gravity. Multiple planets? Yeah pretty sure Surfers board is a much better feat (since cable actually did his feat on panel :^) )

Now lets move on to my characters horrendous speed advantage.

My character was able to dodge a charging bloodlusted silver surfer
http://i.imgur.com/MGlj2QV.png

Bends around a hammer throw from the mighty Thor
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80103/2379687-thorvssuperskrull07.jpg

Literally with the combination of Cables TK and Skrulls speed (cable has some decent speed feats to) there is no way in hell he will be able to tag me.

The fighting ability of cable is also top notch. Hawkman ain't no joke I won't lie, but cable with skill alone (while weakened and no where near his god levels) was able to put the smacking on apocalypse. And we all know apocalypse ain't no pushover.

http://m.imgur.com/a/QP8Ag

Sorry brother, you have a good team here. But it would have been much better if you had actually drafted onimar instead

Originally posted by Blair Wind

Then you die. Sorry Decter, I liked you.

BLAIR WIND POST 3

Bishop and Havok can absorb energy. You know what they all three have in common? They all have a limit.

Nth Metal hasn’t been shown to have a limit. It’s the best. It’s taken on energy of every kind and kept on going. You should get some of it. The more the merrier.

All the green lanterns have the exact knowledge on how to use their rings. But you still can't share feats. Hal Jordan has beaten far more knowledgeable and experienced GLs before. Doesn't matter since it would still be sharing feats if I used one of theirs.

Green Lantern Hal and Green Lantern Kyle can both create a construct - that’s not up for debate. Hawkman, with enough Nth metal, can control the same fundamental aspects of the universe as Onimar Synn. That’s not up for debate.

He’s the only one with the knowledge as he actually absorbed all the racial memories of Thanagar - which included the knowledge lost to Thanagar on how to use Nth metal to it’s fullest potential, and he got that knowledge from the Nth Metal itself.
http://oi64.tinypic.com/11vqq08.jpg

Hawkman has even the only reason he can’t tap into said power is their limited amount of Nth Metal:

The main problem with your argument is that I’m not sharing the exact feats. How my characters will, together, use that power is completely different. I’m not saying that my character does exactly what Onimar Synn does. I am, however, showing what Nth Metal is capable of. A Green Lantern needs a ring and willpower. An Nth Metal user needs knowledge and lots of Nth Metal. I have both. And then I’m basing my strategy on tactics Pym has utilized in the past.

More to the point, my character is using Hank Pym’s scientific feats paired with access to large amounts of Nth metal for my strategy. He’s doing what he does best - finding a solution to the problem your character represents.
[list]
[*]Pym has proven he’s able to nullify psionic powers because he know’s how they operate on a scientific level, something he’s then applied with his tech
[*]Hawkman knows how to operate Nth metal
[*]Nth Metal has proven it’s able to nullify powers and the EM spectrum.
[*]Pym uses the Nth metal to produce the results he wants - without needing his technology.[/list]

It’s both of these characters, together, that makes me so deadly. You’re harping on Hawkman, but I have access to
[list]
[*]large amounts of Nth Metal (Absorbing Man/Pym),
[*]the knowledge on how to utilize it (Hawkman),
[*] and the knowledge on how to apply it (Pym). I’m then using the knowledge that Pym has to control the Grand Unified Theory set of powers in a way that completely nullifies your characters. [/list]

Okay after doing my own research it would seem I had been mislead (about the Claw of Horus - BW). Doesn't really matter tho.

But it does matter. It proves Hawkman is able to utilize Nth Metal to do more than just fly and heal. Judges, Decter basically just admitted that for all his talk about Hawkman not being able utilize the Nth metal properly, he knows he can. And with more Nth Metal than Hawkman has had access to previously, there is zero reason he wouldn’t be able to utilize it to greater effect.

The fact remains that Hawkman had to amp himself to that level. It had to draw power from the Earth's core amping the guantlet to even get close to superman level. So the one strength feat you actually posted was of him amping himself (which isn't allowed) to hurt superman.

What? That’s like saying that Goku can’t draw in power to do a kamemaha wave. The amping rule is definitely not that - it was made so that someone like Lightray wouldn’t sundip Superman. In this case, Hawkman used a piece that’s part of his arsenal and punched the shit out of Superman with his control over the EM spectrum, since the Nth Metal’s power is to control the Four Fundamental Forces of the Universe.

Also Pym already stated Emma could have overpowered it if she would have known, cable is by far a better telepath then her. You also posted him himself stating that he needed to install them as well. Gravity makes black holes yes but Hawkman doesn't have a single feat of making Gravity anywhere near the level of a black hole. Um.....how is he blocking my TP without his transmitters? By absorbing the energy with nth metal? You said he had transmitters (useless as he even stated emma to be able to overpower it) but now your saying your not using tech? I'm a bit confused on this post so I'll go over it later.

Pym stated Emma could do something against his transmitter - but that’s not the same as giving Pym access to the EM Spectrum, knowing how to shut down telepathy, and then nullifying said telepathy.

Which, we should maybe note again, telepathy/psionic abilities are a part of the Electro-Magnetic spectrum. Pym knows this, he knows how telepathy works and has jammed it himself, against Phoenix Emma no less. It doesn't matter if she could work around it eventually - the pause and distraction is all I need to launch my gravity based attack. And Pym isn't the only one who's proven that psionics operate under via the electromagnetic spectrum.

I mean, Iron Man has blocked telepathy this way.

Magneto has blocked telepathy this way.

And I now control the Electro-Magnetic Spectrum.

With power over the Electro-Magnetic Spectrum, Pym’s now able to pull an Iron Man/Magneto and jam your psionic abilities. Jam Dr. Light’s control over photon’s. Nth Metal has shown to nullify abilities (it did it to both Flash and Dr. Fate). Pym + Nth Metal = You have no powers.

I won't deny it disrupts energy but the only thing it actually counters is Dr. Light.

So, Dr. Light is countered by your assessment. Cable would also be countered by mine as psionic energy has also been proven to be absorbed by Nth Metal. Which is a moot point since I’m nullifying the EM spectrum around your character and psionic energy is also proven to work via the EM spectrum.

Also that one guantlet had to amp of the Earths core increasing Hawkmans physically. Drawing from the Earth's core and growing BOTH break the rules.

Nope. Growing isn’t an amp, it’s part of Pym’s powerset. He can increase his own physical prowess. And Nth Metal falls under the materials rule. And the Nth metal using it’s power to control and absorb energy is most definitely not an amp.

You know what else didn't happen? Half the shit your tryna pull with Hawkman. I posted that for a reason to draw you out. Writers said he had the power to but he never did. Writers said Hawkman has the same knowledge but he never performed even half the stuff you posted.

One is hyperbole because it never happened with the powers Cable was stated to have and was stated as hyperbole via narrative. The other is a very smart extrapolation of facts - because Hawkman has said he could, but hasn’t had access to large amounts of Nth Metal, or had the scientific brains (Pym in this case) to properly apply the power.

Hawkman never showed to be able to dampen the EM spectrum field to stop someone like cable from hurting him. Hawkman never showed gravity control that could hold down someone with hulk like strength. Hawkman has never made a black hole.

Hawkman has never had access to so much Nth metal. Pym has made a black hole device. He knows the science. Hawkman knows Nth metal. Nth metal has proven to control the Four Fundamental Forces of the Universe. Proven to nullify powers, magic, the EM Spectrum. I don’t need Onimar Synn, I have a better combo.

Things Decter has conceded to in this post:

[list]
[*]Nth Metal protects me from energy (his argument about Absorbing Man being nulled)
[*]That the Claw of Horus was Nth Metal based - showing us that Hawkman can actually access Nth metals more exotic abilities.
[*]Nth Metal protects me from light (claiming this will only stop Dr. Light).[/list]

He’s left with Cable and Super Skrull. Unfortunately, Cable’s power operates on the EM Spectrum and his only method of attack (psionics) have also been proven to be absorbed by Nth Metal. Surfer’s board wasn’t made to absorb the energy, but this is what Nth Metal does.

Therefore, [list]
[*]Decter admits to Dr. Light being countered by Nth Metal
[*]Decter admits to the Claw of Horus feat being Nth Metal + Hawkman
[*]Decter admits that Nth metal can absorb energy, protecting me from his Absorbing Man argument.
[*]By my strategy, Dr. Light is countered by Nth Metal and my ability to nullify the EM spectrum
[*]By my strategy, Cable is countered by Nth Metal and my ability to nullify the EM spectrum
[*]Because Pym knows how to create a black hole, making gravity do his bidding should be zero problem.[/list]

Then the only thing left is hyperspace bubbles. Because Nth Metal has so easily dealt with energy in the past - even things that are not technically energy, like magic, spacetime, psionics - we can assume hyperspace bubbles will not be a problem. Not that it's a major factor as I've nullified 2/3 of his combo and then gravity bombed him. A black hole is going to kill him no matter what.

Decter, lets call it. You die. Mercy killing. What do you say?

😛 😛

_______ "-Nth Metal hasn’t been shown to have a limit. It’s the best. It’s taken on energy of every kind and kept on going"

That's a legitment No Limits Fallacy argument. Superman has also absorbed a shit ton of different energies yet I wouldn't argue him absorbing cosmic energy

_______ "-Green Lantern Hal and Green Lantern Kyle can both create a construct - that’s not up for debate. Hawkman, with enough Nth metal, can control the same fundamental aspects of the universe as Onimar Synn. That’s not up for debate."

You missed the point entirely. They both can do the same thing however The character must preform it themselves. Your right it's not up for debate, since it's an illegal tactic.

_______ "-He’s the only one with the knowledge as he actually absorbed all the racial memories of Thanagar."

Again the rules state Hawkman must have historically done these feats himself. It's an illegal tactic.

_______ "-The main problem with your argument is that I’m not sharing the exact feats. How my characters will, together, use that power is completely different. I’m not saying that my character does exactly what Onimar Synn does. I am, however, showing what Nth Metal is capable of."

Using another character's feats and then saying will use something similar but not the same is still sharing feats. Again, hawkman has never ever preformed said feats, so the point is mute at best.

_______ "- A Green Lantern needs a ring and willpower. An Nth Metal user needs knowledge and lots of Nth Metal."

A green lantern also needs his own feats. Even if you tried this argument with a GL ot would still be an illegal tactic. Again Hawkman has had to preformed these feats for them to be valid.

_______ "-But it does matter. It proves Hawkman is able to utilize Nth Metal to do more than just fly and heal. Judges, Decter basically just admitted that for all his talk about Hawkman not being able utilize the Nth metal properly, he knows he can"

You must be misreading my post. I said Hawkman was never preformed the feats that you keep trying to share with onimar. All hawkman did was amp which is the only thing you showed that he has historically done. Amping isn't making black holes. Amping isn't nullifying Telepaths. Amping is illegal and it's the only thing he did.

_______ "-What? That’s like saying that Goku can’t draw in power to do a kamemaha wave. The amping rule is definitely not that - it was made so that someone like Lightray wouldn’t sundip Superman. In this case, Hawkman used a piece that’s part of his arsenal and punched the shit out of Superman with his control over the EM spectrum"

Uh no you're amping and that is a terrible example. Goku's energy comes from his own body and power that is naturally making itself in him. His spirit bomb, however, draws the energy of every living thing including the Earth which is considered a amped attack. He had to draw POWER from the EARTH to even do shit to superman. Are you saying drawing power from a different source isn't amping? In fact you just gave me a fine example on Lightray/superman combo that show that you are amping.

Growing to increase his OWN strength doesn't qualify as amping (which it is even tho he denies it), but growing to increase AM/Hawkman's strength DOES qualify as amping just as a Lightray/Superman combo would. Same principal in both cases, one characters powerset is being used to geometrically increase the powers of another character.

_______ "-Pym stated Emma could do something against his transmitter but that’s not the same as giving Pym access to the EM Spectrum, knowing how to shut down telepathy, and then nullifying said telepathy."

Naw he flat out said he was SURE she could have overridden them. However she was not paying attention so she was using her scanning TP (her lowest automatic form of TP). Problem is you still have failed to bring out a feat of hawkman canceling TP. The only one brought up was The thousand minds one with manhunter (which is a very low feat for manhunter) while on the other hand Cable read the minds of billions of people including high level telepaths.

http://oi66.tinypic.com/ncmmn6.jpg

_______ "-Which, we should maybe note again, telepathy/psionic abilities are a part of the Electro-Magnetic spectrum. Pym knows this, he knows how telepathy works and has jammed it himself, against Phoenix Emma no less."

Just gonna say this now that Phoenix Emma isn't all that impressive. That was Rachel Summers Phoenix and her with it is only listed as mid herald. Not only that you are ignoring context. Emma did not have the full powered Phoenix that Rachel(a mid herald) had. She only had 1/5th of it thanks to iron man splitting it up in AVX. Not only that she wasn't even paying attention at all, she was only focusing on destroying the robot not worried about excessing her TP. So yeah not as impressive as your making it out to be

_______ "-the pause and distraction is all I need to launch my gravity based attack."

Seeing how my character is far faster than yours and cable's mind was able to sense, react, AND put up a shield against a FTL attack that had alresdy been in motion you defiantly ain't doing crap.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113173/4631628-c%26d+005+-+20.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111188740/4714145-7075388030-C%26D%252.jpg

Oh yeah I never mentioned Cable's shields did I? Silly me. Remember how he broke Surfers board with TK? Did you know his shields are the same TK energy? Did you know he can put these up instantly? Yeah your character ain't touching mine.

_______ "-And Pym isn't the only one who's proven that psionics operate under via the electromagnetic spectrum."

Still waiting for a scan of hawkman controlling the EM spectrum

_______ "-And I now control the Electro-Magnetic Spectrum."

Waiting for a scan of hawkman dampening the EM spectrum be like

_______ "-Nope. Growing isn’t an amp, it’s part of Pym’s powerset. He can increase his own physical prowess. And Nth Metal falls under the materials rule."

Your not increasing Pym's set tho. You are increasing both Hawkman AND Creel because of it. Which is considered a amp because your using one character's power to increase your other two's power and abilities. So yep. That's amping.

_______ "-One is hyperbole because it never happened with the powers Cable was stated to have and was stated as hyperbole via narrative."

Again my point is the even with the arthur stating he has it, the tourney requires that your character must HISTORICALLY preform the feats himself.

_______ "-Hawkman has never had access to so much Nth metal. Pym has made a black hole device. He knows the science. Hawkman knows Nth metal."

Hawkman has never created a black hole so the point is mute. Knowing how to make and having the ability to make are two different things.

_______ -Nth Metal protects me from energy (his argument about Absorbing Man being nulled)"

You said the Nth metal absorbs energy. This will ultimately be your downfall Creel's power is to absorb whatever he touches as I have shown. If the nth metal is absorbing energy like you say then Creel is absorbing it to.

_______ "-He’s left with Cable and Super Skrull. Unfortunately, Cable’s power operates on the EM Spectrum and his only method of attack (psionics) have also been proven to be absorbed by Nth Metal."

What your not getting is that you still need to show hawkman preforming the stuff onimar did for it to be a valid argument. I haven't seen a feat yet that that would prove he could resist Cable's TP

_______ "-Decter admits that Nth metal can absorb energy, protecting me from his Absorbing Man argument."

Not really. You ****ed yourself on this one. Absorbing man weakness is that he absorbs everything he touches. If the nth metal absorbs energy that's the exact same thing as absorbing man absorbing it (since you are nth metal). Thus, no matter what you will be your own doom if you attempt to abosrb energy.

_______ "-My ability to nullify the EM spectrum"

Where has hawkman nullified the EM spectrum?

_______ "-By my strategy, Cable is countered by Nth Metal and my ability to nullify the EM spectrum"

Hawkman never used the EM spectrum to nullify TP. And you have failed to show hawkman being able to counter someone on Cables TP level.

_______ "-Because Pym knows how to create a black hole, making gravity do his bidding should be zero problem."

It is a problem since you haven't backed up Hawkman having the ability to make a black hole.

_______ "-Then the only thing left is hyperspace bubbles. Because Nth Metal has so easily dealt with energy in the past - even things that are not technically energy, like magic, spacetime, psionics - we can assume hyperspace bubbles will not be a problem."

That's a legitment No Limits Fallacy your tryna pull there. Characters like Rulk and superman have both absorbed many different kinds of energy. But I'm not going to apply that and say superman can absorb cosmic energy pr say that rulk can absorb the energies of a 5D imp.

_______ "-A black hole is going to kill him no matter what."

Knowing how to create a black hole and having the ability are two different things. Whem has Hawkman ever used gravity even close to that.

Originally posted by Blair Wind

😛 😛

YouTube video

Final post on why I win

Nth metal isn't that strong. It's more focused on healing than durability. And even his healing factor isn't that fast.

A nth metal weapon (without amping from the EM spectrum) was broken by using it to hit superman.
https://i2.wp.com/img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/bobmitchell/blog%20pics/splash%20page%20sunday/jla200joekubert.jpg?zoom=2

Took minutes to heal from a simple gun wound
http://i.imgur.com/GpZC4fO.png

Another time it was destroyed and took minutes to reform and regenerate (most likely even longer).

http://cdn3-www.craveonline.com/assets/uploads/2013/04/SAVHKM_19_2-31100.jpg

The claw of horus (which btw isn't apart of Hawkmans standard gear) was able to destroy Onimar Synns nth metal body. How did a couple pounds of nth metal destroy Onimar? Easily explained my friend because I was right from the get go. The claw is actually the most powerful nth weapon ever made and was the only thing that could stop onimar.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/25-28.jpg

And his healing factor took an entire day (probably more) to heal an arm back and he still wasn't in any condition to fight
http://i.imgur.com/MSCx2Le.png

A nth metal ship that crashed from orbit had some serious damages on the side it landed on. Guess what? It didn't regenerate. Turns out nth metal needs a living source to make it properties work at fullest. Becoming nth metal itself means you aren't alive and can't use some of your abilities

https://skoce.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/4.jpg?w=667&h=1024

Hawkman died by a tiny bomb and not only did he the nth metal not absorb the explosive energy it didn't heal him either while also destroying some of his nth metal.

http://i.imgur.com/foZv0C6.png
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--JFZfwbQtn4/U76eBsZjfGI/AAAAAAAD_tg/CehlAtXvAVU/s1600/-023+copy.jpg

Even with Iron man with his counter with the EM spectrum. Cable still easily read his mind with 0 effort and didn't even want to fight him
http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/XSanction-2-1.jpg

Hanks mental problems

When the avengers confronted him on his lunatic behavior Antman stooped down to creating Ultron because of his mental break downs.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/1/11352/1483458-u1vspym2.jpg

He even felt to overwhelmed that he had a mental breakdown and took his anger out on Janet
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/1891370-hank1.jpg

Even ultron was able to easily manipulate him into attacking his friends
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wc5xokRsW3M/T8I89UKLAlI/AAAAAAAAHtA/i-jlMGM0wso/s1600/Avengers161.jpg

Hank's unstable mind makes him a lot easier to manipulate. It also makes you lose focus and also hinders you from countering. I can literally post a illusion of Dr. Light banging Hank's girl and Hank will have a mental breakdown making him easier to control.

Nth metal can't absorb explosive energy

Skrulls antimatter control is a huge advanatge since

1. Touching it will cause absorbing man to turn into it especially if I continually bomb you with it due to my speed advantage.

2. Nth metal doesn't absorb explosive energy or anything too hot

He doesn't do it here
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3062955-the+savage+hawkman+(2011-)+020-011.jpg

Nor here
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11116/111163115/4892102-deathstroke+speed.jpg

Not even here
http://i.imgur.com/foZv0C6.png
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--JFZfwbQtn4/U76eBsZjfGI/AAAAAAAD_tg/CehlAtXvAVU/s1600/-023+copy.jpg

Hawkman is a lot slower

Even while dive bombing he'd only hit 500 mph
http://i.imgur.com/2Zcxrax.png

Blitzed by deathstroke and was even conifdent enough that DS could kill him. Meaning he's knows the limits of his healing factor
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/Deathstroke91/Deathstroke_14_TheGroup_008.jpg

Even here deathstroke blitzes him
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/smallville/images/6/6e/HawkmanvsDeathstroke.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110624200318

Couldn't dodge gunfire
http://i.imgur.com/Ypw4dg4.png

Nor here
http://i.imgur.com/GpZC4fO.png

Couldn't dodge them here either
http://i.imgur.com/KVT9sIw.png
Weaknesses in his team

Caught by Green Arrow
http://rs125.pbsrc.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/DCComics-Hawkman005-07.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip

Even if nth metal does absorb energy. He needs to remember that abosrobing man IS the nth metal. Adding extra absorbing power would make it worse for his team not better. Hank has had many mental breakdowns and absorbing man is an idiot. Your wanting to combine thousands of minds with Hank who created a dangerous weapon (and slapped Janet) just because he was stressed and having a bad day.

My character is far faster. I'd be able to go 1.999 times the speed of light (since we can't go double) and blitz you with a bunch of shit

Blair states all he needs is a moment of hesitation to enact his attack with gravity. Judges he fails to realize that my character could do my entire opening before he even touched himself (insert scoobless here). Not only do I have amazing reaction and speed feats. I have the ability to sense danger.

Blair states that because hank pym knows how to create black holes then that means he can easily make them in battle. What he fails to realizes is that no nth metal (I don't even think onimar did) has ever made a black hole. So how can he make a black hole with nth metal when no one has ever made a black hole with nth metal?

Blair states his combo is not amping since it follows the materials rules and said that a Lightray/superman would be amping. What he fails to realize is that Growing to increase his OWN strength doesn't qualify as amping (which it is even tho he denies it), but growing to increase AM/Hawkman's strength DOES qualify as amping just as a Lightray/Superman combo would. Same principal in both cases, one characters powerset is being used to geometrically increase the powers of another character. I said this already. He will deny facts.

Blair states that since its absorb all kinds of energies (expect explosions, Antimatter, hyperspace, and hasn't absorbed pure kinetic energy either from what I know) that he has the right to automatically assume he can absorb all energies. That is a legitimate No limits fallacy. Rulk, Vulcan, and superman have all absorbed a shit ton of different energies. But I wouldn't argue them being able tp absorb all of them.

Blair states that since onimar have similar knowledge and abilities with nth metal that he can use onimar as a basis to share feats. This goes against the rules seeing how hawkman must historically do them himself. That's like saying you can share martian manhunters feats with Miss martian.

In fact, a better example is the green lanterns. Let's take 2 random GLs for example real quick.

Both green lanterns have access to their rings which are both equal in power. They can't share feats.

Both Green lanterns have the same amount of will power. Rules state they still can't share feats.

Both green lanterns have they same knowledge on the Rings and willpower. Rules state they still can't share feats.

So no matter how bad you want to you simply can't share feats. They must have historically done it themselves.

Blair states that Goku using his Ki and hawkman absorbing energies from the earth are similar since he used it as a example. This is false. Goku's ki comes natural and is apart of his body. Hawkman needed to absorb the energies of the earth to do anything to superman. A better example is Goku's spirit bomb which also gathers energy from all living things including the earth. Both the spirit bomb and thw Claw absorb energy from the earth to amp its power. That is illegal. The claw also isn't even apart of Hawkmans standard gear.

He's numeresly brought up Emma. Who stated by pym, said he was sure if she knew about his devices that she could have overpowered them. This is also Emma with 1/5 of the Rachel Summers Phoenix. Someone who is listed as mid herald in our tier list.

Blair states since he has nth metal he can cancel out my TP and TK (well I haven't seen a counter for TK yet so....). This is false. Based on feats there isn't anyone on Cable's level whose TP failed against nth metal. Even fadeaway man tricked hawkman into almost killing hawkgirl by using illusions. Also Hawkmans thousands of minds aren't nothing to Cable who read billions and some of the top tier telepaths at the same time.

Now back to my opening

I should be able to accomplish everything in my opening post before hawkman even moves a inch. Including Dr. Light's spam of light rays. Blair has no shields and is moving far slower than me. Hawkman only has a few notable speed feats which are highly inconsistent. There was one where he had to focus his entire mind on one spot on flash (who was just barely moving a couple times faster than supersonic so he didn't **** up the place they were in) and even then flash was there for a while and it took minutes for hawkman to find him. Not only that Flash was only moving side to side so it wasn't like flash was going fast.

Dr. Light was only countered if you were able to do your stuff. But seeing how my speed advantage is far greator I should be able to complete my opening thousands of times before you even touched yourself. So bombarding you with light isn't out of the question. And even if that didn't work I'm still fast enough to bombard you with anti matter and hyperspace energies. Not too mention cables Badass TP being at work.

Face it Blair. You can't win this one.

Blair Wind Final Posts

LEGALITY: Tactics, Amping, and Materials Rule

You missed the point entirely. They both can do the same thing however The character must preform it themselves. Your right it's not up for debate, since it's an illegal tactic.

So, if a Green Lantern has never picked his nose, on panel, with a construct, it’s completely illegal to use in this tournament? lmao No. Look, my amalgam is new. It’s a homebrewed Onimar Synn. But the point of an amalgam is to put all the pieces together. A lot of intelligent people knew what he would do once he was put together. I’m sorry if you don’t like what he can do once it’s all one character. But I’ve proven Nth Metal capable of the feats I’m wanting it to do. I’ve proven Pym smart enough to power dampen and create black holes. 2+2 = 4.

What is Amping?

Uh no you're amping and that is a terrible example. Goku's energy comes from his own body and power that is naturally making itself in him. His spirit bomb, however, draws the energy of every living thing including the Earth which is considered a amped attack.

He had to draw POWER from the EARTH to even do shit to superman. Are you saying drawing power from a different source isn't amping? In fact you just gave me a fine example on Lightray/superman combo that show that you are amping. Growing to increase his OWN strength doesn't qualify as amping (which it is even tho he denies it), but growing to increase AM/Hawkman's strength DOES qualify as amping just as a Lightray/Superman combo would. Same principal in both cases, one characters powerset is being used to geometrically increase the powers of another character.

Are you kidding me? You are drawing some really weird lines with what is an amp and what isn’t. Your own characters are allowed to draw in energy/power - it just can’t be the fuel source for another character: ie, Lightray + Superman for a sundipped Superman. If you had used Dr. Light to draw in all available light and used it in a massive attack, I wouldn’t have cried out “foul!!!” It’s a legit part of his powerset.

The much used amping rule:
Disallowed. Materials that aid a power (i.e. Jeffries/adamantium) are allowed. Power amping is not (i.e. The Ray + Kara)

In fact, one more time:

Originally posted by psycho gundam
"Amping Rules: Disallowed. Materials that aid a power (i.e. Jeffries/adamantium) are allowed. Power amping is not (i.e. The Ray + Kara)

Note: Amping is a state of empowerment fueled by some source, that increases a character's physical prowess or ability."

As ID seemed to have envisioned, amping the power of a character by using another as a battery of sorts to take them to new heights is out but a material that has beneficial properties isn't banned from making your character better.

It’s literally in the rule that it’s what I stated (Ray + Kara). That’s the core of the rule. My character doesn’t do that - he grows and turns himself into Nth metal. He’s not empowering Hawkman or Absorbing Man. There are others who agree

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Growing isn't banned as an amp - he has Pym, after all.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
IMHO, if someone picks the superpower of growing bigger this isn't an amp, it's his powerset, which was considered when the char was placed in a tier list.

But you’ve spent the entire match worried about my Nth Metal Giant and what does or doesn’t constitute an amp, arguing about the legality of a strategy of characters where a) EVERYONE knew what I was going to do and b) passed the muster of the host of the tournament twice when I asked him about it because *I* was worried people were going to throw my picks under a bus.

Blair Wind wrote on Oct 13th, 2015 11:48 PM:
I basically have one question: how do you feel about Creel? ID allowed him in the low Herald tournament. I’m thinking about Creel + Pym + Hawkman. Creel takes on Nth metal, Pym makes him big enough for it to be a sizable amount + understands the fundamental forces of nature scientifically, and Hawkman knows how to use it and has it. Plus it carries a type of memory power to help use it. Homemade version of the JS villain.

psycho gundam wrote on Oct 13th, 2015 10:50 PM:
Diabolical 👆

DURING THE DRAFT: Blair Wind wrote on Oct 24th, 2015 09:50 PM:
You know I'm trying to create a homemade Onimar Synn - I just need to know if that falls under "amping" or not.

I don't want to rock the boat, but I think some people just want their drafts being catered to. I don't think amping is a bad thing - and I don't know why it's suddenly become a dirty word.

Anyway, just let me know so I can sit tight or see if I can come up with something else.

psycho gundam wrote on Oct 24th, 2015 10:16 PM:
As long as your amalgam doesn't get waaay stronger forever and ever

Blair Wind wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 02:45 PM:
Hey, I've been purposefully staying out of the tournament thread because of the stir my amalgam seems to have caused. Everyone seemed to know exactly what my strategy was going to be, and then started throwing up red flags after I then executed that exact strategy.

psycho gundam wrote on Nov 12th, 2015 03:40 PM:
I don't think I will be ruling against it since people had ample opportunities to stop you weeks ago so it's really up to your opponents to sway the judges of minutia when it comes to the issues of your amalgam like I would rather than a "top down" decree of it's illegality at this point

Nth Metal: Material Rule

Now, I’m sorry if the Nth Metal is a powerful metal, but it’s a material. Falls under the material rule. Both Psycho (host) and Id (the one who formulated the rules, and Psycho is giving precedence to) have said that. And the line starts there.

Originally posted by "Id"
So is what BW doing legal? Short answer yes.
Is it a form of amping? Short answer yes.

Originally posted by Digi
It falls under the Jeffries/Adamantium rule, so it's not banned per the amping rules, as I would interpret them, at least. It's a clever tactic, especially paired with Pym. It's not without answers, of course. But a strong combo.

psycho gundam wrote on Nov 22nd, 2015 08:40 PM:
Your usage of Nth metal is the "adamantium" rule so that's fine as far as I can tell

If everyone wants me to redraft (if I win), fine. I can do that. But that should have been dealt with during the draft. Not in a match, especially since everyone expected the strategy.

Judges, when a character’s strategy completely negates your own, your last defense is to pick at the legality of the opponent's strat. It’s a last ditch effort. That’s all Decter’s done the entire match.

Nth Metal + Pym

Waiting for a scan of hawkman dampening the EM spectrum

And one of him using Nth Metal to draw in the planet's Magnetism (you know, using the EM spectrum) and punch out Superman.
http://s125.photobucket.com/user/DCHawks_photo/media/sb-04-19.jpg.html

In fact, here’s the Nth Metal argument coup de grâce.
Decter’s been complaining about Onimar Synn and Hawkman not being him, etc etc. So I just wanted to point out: this is an Nth Metal solo feat. Onimar is not anywhere near the prison at the time, he’s in his throne room talking to the Hawks and kicking them off his floating castle. The Nth metal, by itself, was power dampening both the FLASH and DR. FATE.

Now can we agree that Hawkman + Pym with tons of Nth Metal will be just fine?

The claw of horus (which btw isn't apart of Hawkmans standard gear) was able to destroy Onimar Synns nth metal body. How did a couple pounds of nth metal destroy Onimar? Easily explained my friend because I was right from the get go. The claw is actually the most powerful nth weapon ever made and was the only thing that could stop onimar. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/...an616/25-28.jpg

😆 The Hawk Couple kissing is the scan you used? At least use it all.
http://s225.photobucket.com/user/MachineMan616/media/25-26.jpg.html
http://s225.photobucket.com/user/MachineMan616/media/25-27.jpg.html
http://s225.photobucket.com/user/MachineMan616/media/25-28.jpg.html

The Claw of Horus is just a big piece of Nth Metal. It’s the biggest piece that Hawkman has used personally and look what he’s been able to do with it. It’s only distinction is that it was part of the Nth Metal that crash landed on earth and psychically bonded to Prince Khufu. The Hawk-team were able to exploit that psychic link, one they’ve had for generations per the scans I showed previously, after Onimar bonded with it. There is zero evidence that suggests the Claw is “the most powerful nth metal weapon ever made”. That’s some super hyperbole on your part.

ALMOST ALL OF HIS HAWKMAN SCANS THAT RELATE TO EXPLOSIVES AND SPEED

😕 Uh…..are you using Hawkman from the New 52??? That’s a completely different continuity. Besides, those are all of Hawkman with limited amounts of Nth Metal. Let's be honest, it changes things significantly when my entire being is Nth Metal.

Hanks mental problems. Hank's unstable mind makes him a lot easier to manipulate. It also makes you lose focus and also hinders you from countering.

😕 That’s like saying having alcohol in front of Stark is an auto-win. It doesn’t work like that. Besides, Hawkman provides mental toughness.

And just to re-iterate, for funsies, and with big pretty pictures, let’s note that Pym, “the mentally challenged”, was able to Power Dampen Loki, block Phoenix Emma’s TP, block The Mutant Sister’s TP, block Pixies magical teleportation, and created a device that produced a black hole. Just imagine him with Nth Metal!

Even with Iron man with his counter with the EM spectrum. Cable still easily read his mind with 0 effort and didn't even want to fight him
http://www.spidermancrawlspace.com/...anction-2-1.jpg

…..except that scan just shows a TK blast. And it doesn’t show Iron Man utilizing the tactic. So…?

My character is far faster. I'd be able to go 1.999 times the speed of light (since we can't go double) and blitz you with a bunch of shit

…...in what universe has Dr. Light ever gone faster than light? None. In fact, the only times he’s ever traveled at the speed of light is when he’s actually been light. Since legality is your favorite tactic:

Blair Wind wrote on Nov 6th, 2015 10:38 PM:
I'm about 99% done with my writeup. Just wanted to ask about the phasing rule. Does that apply to turning into light? "Self BFR is only good for phasing. Good for 1 second." I don't really mind either way, but Decter has Dr. Light on his team so the answer may affect how I deal with that.

psycho gundam wrote on Nov 6th, 2015 10:44 PM:
He can't be immaterial for that long, yes.

Too bad you wasted your very first move in turning invisible and then, I quote,

“I teleport from where I was to a different spot to make my location much safer. Now my opponent doesn't have a clue where I am, and doesn't even know my location anymore.”
http://i.imgur.com/uDIp8PE.png
http://i.imgur.com/QdK4t39.png

So while you move away from me, I’ve done what I need to do to face you. Check. Mate.

Dr. Light was only countered if you were able to do your stuff.

I like it when the opponent admits defeat. Thank you. Since I was, as you say, able to do my stuff, I’ll take my win.

SUMMARY OF EVENTS: Compare and Contrast
Blair Wind Strategy
[list=1]
[*]I touch myself and grow giant sized (300ft)
[*]AOE Power Dampening
I close my eyes and simply power dampen the entire EM field around the battlefield - the same way the Nth Metal prison stopped Flash from using his aura and Dr. Fate from spellcasting. The same way Hank stopped the Cuckoo’s and Phoenix from using mind control/telepathy or letting Pixie teleport. That, at the very very least, is going to cause a hiccup with both Cable (psionic) and Dr. Light’s powers.
[*]AOE Gravity makes Black Holes
I then make gravity all around us heavy - I’m going to grab him like Onimar Synn grabbed Black Adam (without looking at him, just felt him with gravity). If Nth Metal allows for gravity control from a planet to a moon then the .5 mile(?) distance all around me should be absolutely no problem. And then I’m going to bust a black hole on his chest.
And since Black Holes are these pesky little things that don’t let light escape, he’s going to have a really big problem getting out of this alive. If he turns into light, well he has two problems - I just power dampened the EM field so it’s very probable he can’t. Second, that does him no good as the black hole will still just suck him dry.
[*]Passive Defenses
Now, if he manages to hit me with a psychic bolt or light - I’ll just absorb/disrupt it. With normal amounts of Nth Metal this wouldn’t be possible, but since I’m now completely Nth Metal (including my internal organs/brain) - it’s the only option.

And if things got physical, considering I’m a giant with extremely enhanced strength - if the Claw of Horus (a few pounds of pure Nth Metal) can basically knock Superman out, if Hawkman with limited amounts of it can hang with Black Adam and Wonder Woman, imagine a 300ft giant (already strong) made entirely of Nth metal (made even stronger) - I can straight up punch through his shields or him. In addition to the strength, the Nth Metal Form would just disrupt anything he throws my way.[/list]

Decter Strategy
[list=1]
[*]Prep: Make Shields
Since prep was only to get shields up I will take advantage of that with my boy super skrull
[*]Turn Invisible
Super skrull (as we all know) has the ability to turn COMPLETY invisible.
[*]Teleport Away From Original Location
While Invisible (with shields up and shields are a part of Skrull that can move to his will). I teleport from where I was to a different spot to make my location much safer. Now my opponent doesn't have a clue where I am, and doesn't even know my location anymore.
(BW Note: He doesn’t have actual teleportation. He can turn into light and speed away)
[*]Mind Rape + Illusions at the same time
Next thing is simple. Keep him busy, confused, and wear him down with illusions while also trying to mind rape him at the same time.
[*]Light blasts
And with him distracted, confused, and continually being exhausted I can easily blast him with Dr. Light
[*]Later changed tactics to "anti-matter" blasts, something that was mentioned once in SS's origin and then never touched on again. He just has normal flames after that.
[/list]

Overlapping Strategies
[list]
[*]Prep:
Decter: Make Shields

[*]First Instant
BW: Touch/Grow
Decter: Turn Invisible

[*]Second Thing
BW: Power Dampen the EM spectrum AOE
Decter: Teleport to a different location (but close enough to attack BW), by turning into light

[*]Third Thing
BW: Gravity Attack to Black Hole
Decter: Tries to use Psychic Abilities and Light for Illusions - both powers that need the EM spectrum, but those powers have been dampened.

[*]Fourth Thing
BW: Finished. Decter’s actually dead.
Decter: Tries to blast with Light - but can't escape the pull of gravity[/list]

Essentially, all of Decter's plans rely on using the EM spectrum. By negating him of that resource via an AOE attack, he's left crippled with 1 character to do anything with. Now, Pym knows what goes into making a black hole. He's created devices that create them before. Now having power enough to create one, there's literally nothing he can do to get out alive. Honestly, he's lucky I can't offensively matter manipulate him. I'd negate the bonds of his atoms completely.

Judges, I hope you've found the match entertaining. Thanks for doing what you do. 👆

THE END

beatboks wrote on Dec 12th, 2015 08:08 AM:

My vote

BW plan
I touch myself (absorb Nth Metal) grow big.
Use the greater amount of Nth metal combined with Hank pym’s knowledge to take full advantage of the complete control of Unified field theory.
Play around with the magnetic field to upset Decters powers, and hit him with black holes.

Pro’s
1. Simple and concise

2. It’s proven through many varied comics (both Marvel and DC) that electromagnetics upsets TP/psionics.

3. While it’s not as commonly known, as one of the biggest JSA fanboys on any forum I am well aware of exactly how well Nth metal absorbs energy.

Con’s
1. Pym particles have a side effect that can cause mental instability with extended exposure (it’s why hank stopped being ant man or giant man and started shrinking weapons etc during his WCA days, and for his “Yellowjacket personality”)

2. No proof that Nth can be used to “increase gravity” to perform that part of the strategy. Not even Ominar Synn had demonstrated that ability and if he hasn’t with centuries of experience Pym won’t either.

3. Pym particles are sub atomic where the difference between matter and energy is questionable. There’s a grey area on how they would even work with Nth based on it’s own interaction and disruption of energy.

Decter’s plan
Put up shield, become invisible teleport to make it hard to discern his location.
Hit him with illusions to distract and occupy
Hit him with light blast to absorb and change him to light

Pro’s

1. Based on aspects of part of the build seemingly effective (aimed at the build components)

Con’s

1. Doesn’t account for the Nth metals control of EM spectrum in large quantities with the right knowledge which DQ’s most of your powerset.

2. Doesn’t account for the combined abilities of the build ( Pym’s intellect not Creel’s, Nth Metal absorbs energy not allowing Creel to take it straight)

From here much of the debate comes down to legalities, so I’ll address these now

1. Hawkman’s feats vs Ominar Synn’s. The simple fact is BW showed HM drawing on the entire elecgtro-magnetic spectum of earth to hit superman. That IS HM manipulating electro-magnetics on a planetary level. He’s doing so with a few pounds of Nth meta, having vastly more means greater scale. Certainly enough to show that the plan in respect to nullifying powers would work

2. Hawkman actually used the claw of Horus to wrest control of all the Nth metal from Synn to effect victory. He was able to do this because ____a) The claw is the3 largest piece of pure nth metal known to exist _____ and_________ b) he has a strong connection to the claw due to his history with it and the psychic sensitive nature of Nth. This pretty much shows that Carter IS capable of controlling Nth to the degree of Synn.

3. Mr Terrific actually created devices that could bend space with minute amounts of Nth metal based on what information Hawkman gave him. He created a working teleporter that he stated he needed more power for BECAUSE of the limited amount of Nth metal at his disposal

4. Creating Black holes. This one I don’t buy. Not even Synn with centuries of experience in the use of nth metal has demonstrated anywhere near this capacity. Adding the Knowledge of Pym doesn’t suddenly make us capable of something never before seen possible with what is in the fight.

5. Drawing on the magnetic core isn’t an amp as it’s something that we have already seen the character do in their own right. If I were to allow that line to be drawn than Dr light is completely use;ess as a character as without light around for him to use and “amp” on he has NO POWER.

6. Growing in size is also not an amp when again it is within the characters in canon abilities.
Unfortunately most of decter’s debate centred around the legalities of the use of BW’s character. Since for me these don’t seem to be at issue I can’t take this into account.

Conclusion

If Decter had called into question the way Pym particles which are close to an energy would interact with Nth metal that has energy disrupting abilities or had called into question how the amalgam can even use the Pym particles to the full effect as Hank himself can’t any longer without repercussions, there might have been more to take into consideration on his part.

Also Decter in your last post you put up quite a bit of out of context stuff that detracted a little for me

1. The first scan is pre COIE and as such Hawkman never had Nth metal weapons. Even post COIE the weapons HM uses are only “laced” with Nth. The total amount of Nth that was found by Khufu etc in the crashed Thanagarian space ship was only a few kilos. MOST was actually used in the claw alone. Even the wings/belt only have a few grams of the stuff.

2. As BW correctly pointed out many of the next lot of scans were NU52 and weren’t the version that Blair used throughout the debate.

3. SA scans of a minute number of instances of Pym having mental instability, against the vast majority to the contrary is sort of a PIS argument. Had you combined them with the reasons that Pym started operating a Pym in West coast Avengers and shrunk and enlarged weapons that he carried in pockets RATHER than himself you would have undermined a LOT more of BW’s debate.

It was a good debate, my vote goes to Blair Wind
Job well done to both of you.

LordofBrooklyn wrote on Dec 13th, 2015 09:43 PM:

Blair Wind’s Opening Post

Blair utilizes Nth metal both as a means of psychic defense and as an offensive weapon utilizing the fundamental forces of the universe. This is then augmented by Pym’s scientific knowledge and ability to grow in size. Creel’s absorption abilities are utilized to become Nth metal.

Strategy- Creates a field that negates the electromagnetic energy present thereby limiting psionic attacks. He then creates a Black hole which ultimately destroys his opponent.

Decter’s Opening Post

Enters the battle with shields up.

Strategy- Turns invisible and teleports on the battlefield to escape detection. He then implores illusions to distract and confuse his opponent. Ultimately, he turns his adversary to light and gains control of him.

Blair’s First Post

Counters Decter’s point of teleportation as truly being an altered state in which Dr. Light assumes another form. Maintains that electromagnetic disruption limit’s the effectiveness of a psionic assualt. Further, argues that if it doesn’t totally render it useless, the backlash resulting from it would be problematic. Creel’s incidents of absorbing material against his will are contested with Absorbing Man’s later showings of improved mastery of his power.

Decter’s First Post

Argues that Pym’s depictions against telepaths involved beings of lesser skill and power than Cable. He also cites Cable’s telekinesis as a means of destroying any weapon forged by his opponent. Counters any attempt to change in size by asserting that Cable can operate on a genetic, atomic, cellular and molecular level.

Verdict after the First Post

Blair maintains his argument regarding nullifying Decter’s attacks through manipulating the electromagnetic field. He fails to provide any evidence regarding Creel’s improved mastery over absorption which would negate his being turned to light and manipulated.

Decter introduces Pym acknowledging the limitation of his tech against a powerful telepath in Emma. He also argues that Cable can render any change in size by Blair moot through his powers. However, he fails to show any proof of these abilities.

A slight edge to Blair at this point.

Second Post

Blair Wind

Argues that any psychic assault will be absorbed by Nth metal before it has a chance to effect him. Addresses the shared feat restriction by arguing that Hawkman has the same knowledge of Nth metal which is the requirement to replicate Synn’s feats with the property. Dismisses Decter’s claim that the Claw of Horus provided an amp by stating that it is simply Nth metal functioning normally. Both Cable’s ability to destroy any tech used to gain an advantage or the time to create the tech is also countered. Pym with his scientific knowledge can use the power of the Nth metal to have the same effect without tech.

Decter

Argues that the Nth metal has limitations in its ability to absorb energy and that any suggestion otherwise is a no limit fallacy. He also contends that any reference to Synn’s abilities with Nth metal in reference to Hawkman should be disqualified according to the rules. In addition, the Claw of Horus incident referenced by Blair Wind should be disqualified per the rules as well. Cable’s telekinetic power is reinforced as being too much to be absorbed. A speed advantage through Super-Skrull is brought up for the first time.

Verdict after the Second post

Blair Wind references the issues of feat sharing and tech limitation by noting the synergistic dynamic of Hawkman and Pym’s abilities.

Decter seeks to render the points of absorption and negation of his attacks as being moot due to Blair’s breaking the rules. That notwithstanding he allows that a speed advantage on his part would make it a non-issue if the tactics are allowed.

Decter’s claim of rule-breaking on the part of Blair is a great gambit but falls short given the letter of the law. His speed argument is intriguing but is now presented as a backup to his initial assault.

Blair’s point about the synergistic aspect of his character gains him an advantage here.

Blair maintains his advantage.

Third Post

Blair reinforces the synergistic aspects of his character. The knowledge of Hawkman regarding Nth metal combined with the scientific expertise of Pym is what allows for the attacks he will utilize. The amount of Nth metal is given greater importance as in smaller amounts it was able to achieve comparably impressive feats. The issue of amping in regard to drawing upon energy through Nth metal as well as growing is dismissed as simply being innate parts of his characters powersets.

Decter’s Third Post

Reiterates the point about the utilizing of Nth metal and growing in size to be against the rules and not considered in rendering a verdict. More examples of Cable’s power are provided to show it exceeds the limits of Nth metal’s absorption and/or negation abilities. Cable’s shields are introduced as well along with his reflexes in creating one while under attack. Creel’s absorbing ability is referenced as a negative in relation to battle.

Verdict after the Third Post

Blair Wind explores the synergistic aspect of his character in more detail. In conjunction it directly refutes the claims of breaking the rules as argued by Decter. He cites a concession made in regard to Nth metal being able to counter Dr. Light’s power.

Decter continues to argue that the use of Nth metal and growing as argued by Blair Wind should be disqualified. Cable’s powers as being able to overcome the presence of Nth metal are referenced a bit more with the introduction of his shields and reflexes.

Blair gains an edge with the concession made by Decter in regard to Dr. Light. Conversely, Decter gains no ground as his argument for disqualification once again fails according to the rules.

Blair maintains his advantage

Final Post

Decter attacks the power of Nth metal as being used primarily for healing and that its defensive abilities are below what Blair Wind has argued. Specifically citing instances involving explosions and extreme heat. He introduces Pym’s mental instability as a means to be exploited by Cable’s telepathic abilities. The speed advantage is brought in as an advantage as well.

Blair once again defends his strategies in regard to Nth metal and growing as being in accordance with the rules. He also cites direct instances to refute Hawkman’s inability to utilize Nth metal to bring about his plan. Most notably, a scan is provided showing Nth metal’s innate ability to dampen powers. The speed advantage on Decter’s part is countered in two ways. One, no proof of light speed ability is demonstrated by Decter, this includes the implicit suggestion of this speed through Dr. Light. Second, Flash’s speed was shown to be affected by Nth metal.

FINAL VERDICT

Decter spent the majority of his posts attempting to disqualify Blair’s attacks as being illegal. While bold, it never met the threshold necessary for it to be valid. In the other instances in which he accepted the use of Nth metal, Pym’s scientific expertise and Creel’s absorption he treated them as individual attacks from a group of 3. Again, it was an interesting tactic but fell short. Blair didn’t have a group of 3 individuals, he had an amalgam.

Blair Wind created a synergistic dynamic that provided the perfect counter for what Decter introduced in his OP and 3 posts thereafter. The elements of psionic attack, light based offense and the powerset of the Fantastic Four all fell under his team’s ability to defend utilizing their abilities.

The legality of amping and shared feats were solidly refuted by the examples he provided throughout his posts.

Winner

Blair Wind

Winner: Blair wind