Kubo retconned spiritual pressure a long long time ago. Ichigo's classmates were able stand around Aizen in his hougyoku form just fine.
Also, Yusuke stomps. Statements made regarding him and Sasuke put him on planet busting level. Besides, landscaping feats are nothing compared to causing earthquakes just by the mere growl of your stomach in a plain of existence a lot more durable than earth.
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Kubo retconned spiritual pressure a long long time ago. Ichigo's classmates were able stand around Aizen in his hougyoku form just fine.Also, Yusuke stomps. Statements made regarding him and Sasuke put him on planet busting level. Besides, landscaping feats are nothing compared to causing earthquakes just by the mere growl of your stomach in a plain of existence a lot more durable than earth.
Yeah, you're wasting your breath on them here, pal.
But yeah, I thought as much. I haven't watched/read Yuyuhakasho(however you spell it) in a long time though, so I couldn't make a real argument. I did remember some planet level stuff towards the end though, so he should be solidly above anyone in Bleach.
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaI'm sure I am. I'm familiar with the "oh, we haven't seen X do it" argument (e.g. lots of people deny that Cell can actually destroy solar systems). Very common reasoning on versus forums, but not present anywhere else since it utterly disregards concepts like author intent and plain meaning.
Yeah, you're wasting your breath on them here, pal.
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
I'm sure I am. I'm familiar with the "oh, we haven't seen X do it" argument (e.g. lots of people deny that Cell can actually destroy solar systems). Very common reasoning on versus forums, but not present anywhere else since it utterly disregards concepts like author intent and plain meaning.
Yep. That's basically this forum section, in a nutshell.
Unless it's something arguing that CA Superman can't universe bust, because he never has. It's a GIVEN that he can, just by statements. But saying Goku can, because it was stated that he could? Ridiculous.
Originally posted by JmanghanArguments by assertion are illogical. Always.
Showings > StatementsALWAYS.
Don't give me made-up versus forum rules that nobody besides people on versus forums would ever even consider the notion that they were of any merit. If you want to suggest that statements don't mean what they say, prove the author's intent was hyperbole or to mislead. If you can't, we don't have anything to discuss. Very simple.
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Kubo retconned spiritual pressure a long long time ago. Ichigo's classmates were able stand around Aizen in his hougyoku form just fine.Also, Yusuke stomps. Statements made regarding him and Sasuke put him on planet busting level. Besides, landscaping feats are nothing compared to causing earthquakes just by the mere growl of your stomach in a plain of existence a lot more durable than earth.
yusuke is not planet, and Sasuke's not in this fight.
People take the whole Genkai statement to literal. Genkai never said Yusuke could literally destroy the world, what she meant was that if Yusuke decide to say **** the world and wants to conquer it, he could, because no one was strong enough to fight him.
More proof was given with Raizen that no one in the verse past low end mountain, high end small island level. Raizen who was league above Yusuke prior to the beginning of the story roam the Earth and eating humans with no consequence to the Earth. Raizen prior to the beginning of the story at his stronget cause he ate so many humans, and he wasn't the only S rank roaming the Earth. Yet the Earth was never destroyed.
Also, Raizen's stomach did not cause Earthquakes.
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Showings > StatementsALWAYS.
If a character hasn't shown they can do it, and threatened to do it, then they can't do it, simple as that.
Thats the way its always been.
You're an idiot.
I don't know why I'm even bothering here, since this will undoubtedly boil down to the usual shtick, with me practically trying to teach a chimp algebra.
What you're saying is the equivalent of suggesting that hero's are not needed, nor required.
In the movie Hancock, when the blonde guy threatened to blow up the building with the deadman switch, what happened? Hancock sliced his hand off, and stopped him from doing so. Does this mean that the man couldn't have blown up the building with his c4 charges? NO, IT MEANS HANCOCK DID HIS PHUCKING JOB. And a good job, at that.
All this means is that someone stopped him from doing what he threatened to do.
This is the same thing as Gohan vs Cell, when Cell threatened to blow up the solar system.
Or when the Anti-monitor threatened to destroy Universe one.
Or when Kaguya, Vegeta, Boros, and a dozen other characters from a dozen other series, threatened to blow up Earth.
And realize these are all different series, yet the same logic applies. This is a universal fact. When someone states they can do something, unless they state it with some form of hyperbole, or unless we have a reason to doubt them, WE DON'T DOUBT THEM. 👆
Originally posted by SquallXYusuke is a planet buster per statements made in the series. You're welcome to dispute them, but I've never seen anything compelling to suggest the author was exaggerating or being misleading. Sasuke is typo. I meant Sensui.
yusuke is not planet, and Sasuke's not in this fight.People take the whole Genkai statement to literal. Genkai never said Yusuke could literally destroy the world, what she meant was that if Yusuke decide to say **** the world and wants to conquer it, he could, because no one was strong enough to fight him.
More proof was given with Raizen that no one in the verse past low end mountain, high end small island level. Raizen who was league above Yusuke prior to the beginning of the story roam the Earth and eating humans with no consequence to the Earth. Raizen prior to the beginning of the story at his stronget cause he ate so many humans, and he wasn't the only S rank roaming the Earth. Yet the Earth was never destroyed.
Also, Raizen's stomach did not cause Earthquakes.
People take the whole Genkai statement literal because there's nothing to suggest that it isn't literal and plenty to suggest that the author is consistently driving home the point that there are those powerful enough in the YYH verse to cause serious damage to the planet. Which is the very reason so much effort was put toward sealing off A class demons and higher. Also the expressed reason Sensui doesn't use his full power while in the human realm. Even early into the series, we get talk from Koenma about how his father's wrath would result in the destruction of continents should the artifacts Hiei, Kurama and Gouki stole were not retrieved.
You bring up Raizen prior to the beginning of the story, but this is an unpersuasive argument as there is no indication that Raizen ever used any substantial amount of power while eating humans on earth. In fact, the human we do see him attempting to eat was ordinary for all intents and purposes.
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaHere's something to keep in mind here as far as this entire "showings > statement" logic is concerned. Showings can be every bit as misleading and exaggerated as statements. This happens VERY OFTEN in sports manga/anime. For example, In Hajime No Ippo (boxing manga), we see one of the boxers moving so fast that he appears in multiple places at once, yet we know this isn't literally happening since all of the boxers expressly have real world human limitations. In the prince of tennis movie, we see one of the players returning a shot which is shown powerful enough to destroy all of the dinosaurs, yet there's no question that that didn't literally happen.
You're an idiot.I don't know why I'm even bothering here, since this will undoubtedly boil down to the usual shtick, with me practically trying to teach a chimp algebra.
What you're saying is the equivalent of suggesting that hero's are not needed, nor required.
In the movie Hancock, when the blonde guy threatened to blow up the building with the deadman switch, what happened? Hancock sliced his hand off, and stopped him from doing so. Does this mean that the man couldn't have blown up the building with his c4 charges? NO, IT MEANS HANCOCK DID HIS PHUCKING JOB. And a good job, at that.
All this means is that someone stopped him from doing what he threatened to do.
This is the same thing as Gohan vs Cell, when Cell threatened to blow up the solar system.
Or when the Anti-monitor threatened to destroy Universe one.
Or when Kaguya, Vegeta, Boros, and a dozen other characters from a dozen other series, threatened to blow up Earth.
And realize these are all different series, yet the same logic applies. This is a universal fact. When someone states they can do something, unless they state it with some form of hyperbole, or unless we have a reason to doubt them, WE DON'T DOUBT THEM. 👆
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHCxpzA-rdM
It's not about coming up with made-up rules like "showings > statements." It all comes down to figuring what the author is intending with any particular scene. Sometimes, the author is simply exaggerating or being misleading. Other times, the author is getting a point across (i.e. showing how powerful Cell has become) without having to go through the trouble of finding a way to visibly incorporate it into the story.
There's no need to have Cell teleport to another solar system, nuke it, then come back to earth when a statement alone (this blast has enough power to destroy the solar system) is sufficient. Now if Toriyama wanted to downplay Cell's feat, he could have easily done so (i.e. having another character explain that Cell will destroy every planet in the solar system one by one if Gohan doesn't stop him).