Are the Self Evident Truths as valid as The Ten Commandments?

In terms of how people should live their lives?
Less? More?
Why/why not?
Are they both just the same idea differently worded?

The Truths:

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

The Commandments (short version):

You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

I think the "self-evident truths" are better and more valid on the whole. I mean particularly the first 4 of the Ten commandments are all just silly. The others have some good parts, but maybe need some more differentiation. Either of course falls short for a decent moral system, but I guess they are not awful at least.

Valid in what sense? "Self-evident" in the given context means that it can't be proven.

The ten commandments would be more important to Christians since they're supposedly God's laws.

Originally posted by Astner
Valid in what sense? "Self-evident" in the given context means that it can't be proven...

"self-evident truths"
not needing to be demonstrated or explained; obvious.

synonyms: obvious, clear, plain, evident, apparent, manifest, patent, axiomatic; distinct, transparent, overt, conspicuous, palpable, unmistakable, undeniable

Click on "axiomatic" and read up on what an axiom is. You don't claim something to be an axiom if it can be proven.

So going by one synonym?
As is your right, sir. 👆

Riv is right, self-evident doesn't mean it can't be proven, but that is obvious (by its own nature) that it is proven.

Originally posted by riv6672
So going by one synonym?

You can call anything self-evident, and unless there's a disproof you can only claim that said assertion isn't self-evident to you.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Riv is right, self-evident doesn't mean it can't be proven, but that is obvious (by its own nature) that it is proven.

Eh, if you say so, but i disagree.
I can get with the second part if your statement though. The whole God and Country deal.

Those Self Evident truths are "evident" in name only. Going by the history of Humanity, it was clearly something difficult to conceive for many.

This sounds more of a philosophical question than a religion question, but I'll still answer it as a religious one.

Only if we assume the God of the Jews is real, we can fully make sense of the ten commandements (a sin is an offense towards God after all). The Creator named in the Self Evident truth can be any kind of entity, so technically is a wider statement.

Both rulesets are close or similar depending in which canonic version of the Holy Books you stick to. I don't think any of them will consider them as valid as the Ten Commandents though, since they aren't rules handed by God Himself.

As pointed out before, some of the Comandments are very niche and are likely imposible or at least difficult to translate into other beliefs. However, the Self Evident Truths are also partial in many regards (throwing around the words equal and liberty without explaining exactly to which level those are applied -since many faiths have metaphysical considérations-, makes them somewhat limited). Arguably, because of loose semantics they could also be applied into more religious practices.

I'm assuming people would intentionally stray from the original meaning to fit their respective beliefs, for example, a religion that is into human sacrifice would not consider it "murder".

Thanks for the response.
One thing i have to comment on is right at the start though, where you say the truths are evident in name only.
Just because something is difficult to conceive for some/someone, doesnt make it less true.

Originally posted by riv6672
Thanks for the response.
One thing i have to comment on is right at the start though, where you say the truths are evident in name only.
Just because something is difficult to conceive for some/someone, doesnt make it less true.

Agreed.

The nature of anything that's evident is such that you shouldn't/can't look for it. Evident things are in the open, they need no effort to be found. But many things can be absolutely real while being "hidden".

Weirdly enough, this leads into a situation where an "evident truth" can be read as a "truth not worth seeking".

Not all the commandments are valid. "Don't have any other Gods" and "don't make any idols" kind of sound like the same thing, but that is also more about ego then anything else.

Then the whole coveting thing..I never saw why this was bad. Covet means to want something, right? Why is it wrong to want something someone else has? Like if they have a nice car. It doesn't mean you are considering stealing it or anything like that. Just seems silly. Now I agree it is shady if you want to hook up with someone who you know is married, but merely coveting a persons stuff, I don't see the harm. These kinds of things can drive people to success, they want the nice things they see others with.

But just consider the craziness of some of the commandments. Most of them are just better ways to live: don't kill, don't steal, don't lie. Doing these things or not doing then can have a big impact on your life. But taking the Lords name in vain..or not taking it, doesn't help anyone. I mean his name isn't even actually "God".

So, for you, the Truths are overall more valid?

Yes and here is where we also run into a problem. Now murder is bad, correct? Most people agree. If some random stranger came up and said "murder is wrong, very wrong" you'd say "well yes it is" and probably think nothing more.

Now if that random stranger was Charles Manson, a guy who used to apparently leave babies out in the wilderness to toughen them up(most died), and he was telling you murder is bad..I'm guessing part of you would be thinking "you got a lot of balls to be talking about how bad murder is considering the shit you did or had others do in your name".

So in other words, God telling me it is bad to kill is sort of like that. It's like if Hitler went on a rant about how genocide was awful.

Ha, interesting!
Having said that, Hitler had a lot of good ideas which werent insanity based.

For me it can be simplified by saying "practice what you preach".

Though Hitler tended to channel his insanity more towards making increasingly bad decisions concerning the war. He was also on a wide variety of drugs, like amphetamines. He then sent those out to the front line troops as well. But that is another topic entirely.

And an interesting topic at that.

But see why do I get the feeling that if God is real he is like a shitty parent? When I have brought up the "practice what you preach" to parents their response was "do as I say not as I do" which is lovely and totally a legit response if the child in question is 16 years old or younger.

So you're saying mankind, in YO, is a mature adult as opposed to a child? 😕
I...have to disagree.