Bill O'Reilly Blasts Planned Parenthood

Originally posted by Star428
Obviously murder is a little too strong of a word for what they do but they most certainly deny them a natural right to live which is immoral, to say the least. It's not right that an innocent unborn baby should have to pay because his or her parents couldn't practice safe sex or, *gasp* God forbid, actually abstain all together. If u can't deal with the repercussions of having a child then perhaps you shouldn't be taking a risk of whatever birth control you're using of failing on you. Just to be clear, I'm ok with abortions if they happen very soon after impregnation takes place. If they wait too long (like when the fetus has a heart) then I don't think "murder" is any longer an inappropriate term to use for it.

The problem is that you aren't speaking objectively. You're saying what you're saying like it's a matter of undeniable fact, when it isn't.

I'm not saying you're wrong to have your views (though I sincerely don't agree with them, being pro-choice), just that a lot of people like to talk like shit is black and white when it's not.

Originally posted by -Pr-
The problem is that you aren't speaking objectively. You're saying what you're saying like it's a matter of undeniable fact, when it isn't.

I'm not saying you're wrong to have your views (though I sincerely don't agree with them, being pro-choice), just that a lot of people like to talk like shit is black and white when it's not.

We have already debated back and forth on the validity of points on either side.

I think it can be acknowledged, that at this time, neither of us can decisively prove our point to the other.

Difference is, if I am wrong, I will have admittedly, supported the movement that sought to needlessly burden countless women for nine months and maybe even slightly risked their lives.

And if you are wrong, you are supporting one of the greatest legalized mass murder in the history of man and of the most innocent, helpless lives that exist.

I can live with the consequences of me being wrong. I hope you are, too.

Edit (althought too late to edit above comment). Dangit, I think the video riled me up a bit there. Oh well. Anyway, I feel like I need to clarify that I do not entirely support the Pro-Life movement verbatim. I am for the regulation of abortions (or more like against the deregulation of it). I do acknowledge the necessity of abortions (when better options are exhausted) as a medical procedure. I am not for the outright banning of abortions entirely.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
We have already debated back and forth on the validity of points on either side.

I think it can be acknowledged, that at this time, neither of us can decisively prove our point to the other.

Difference is, if I am wrong, I will have admittedly, supported the movement that sought to needlessly burden countless women for nine months and maybe even slightly risked their lives.

And if you are wrong, you are supporting one of the greatest legalized mass murder in the history of man and of the most innocent, helpless lives that exist.

I can live with the consequences of me being wrong. I hope you are, too.

Pro-choice isn't the same thing as being pro-abortion, though.

And you say that like no women have ever died for being denied access to abortions.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Pro-choice isn't the same thing as being pro-abortion, though.

And you say that like no women have ever died for being denied access to abortions.

I think it's less about being pro or anti abortion than it is about seeing a fetus as human life or not at this point.

Let me clarify that I am 100% for abortion if the mother's life is at reasonable risk. However, if you're talking about women who were denied abortions and then decided to get an abortion for convenience's (and not for health reasons) sake although it is no longer a legally viable option, then it's not really anyone's fault but their own. Women who risk their lives in back alley physicians just to get rid of a baby kinda rolled the dice, didn't they? There are other options outside of abortion if they didn't want to be a parent.

That makes perfect sense if we don't take the realities of societal pressure into account.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I think it's less about being pro or anti abortion than it is about seeing a fetus as human life or not at this point.

Let me clarify that I am 100% for abortion if the mother's life is at reasonable risk. However, if you're talking about women who were denied abortions and then decided to get an abortion for convenience's (and not for health reasons) sake although it is no longer a legally viable option, then it's not really anyone's fault but their own. Women who risk their lives in back alley physicians just to get rid of a baby kinda rolled the dice, didn't they? There are other options outside of abortion if they didn't want to be a parent.

It depends on how you quantify human life too, I would argue.

I'm against abortion being used as a form of birth control as casually as one would use the morning after pill, like it's no big thing. I still think it should be an option, though, and not just for defects or it being dangerous to the mother.

What options are you talking about? Adoption? That still requires her to actually go through with the birth.

I think abortion as a form of birth control is a far overstated issue. It's basically the boogeyman of the pro-life movement. I'm not denying that it may happen, but it's definitely a small minority. Abortions are both too expensive, too emotionally and physically taxing, and too stigmatised for almost anyone to use it as birth control.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It depends on how you quantify human life too, I would argue.

I'm against abortion being used as a form of birth control as casually as one would use the morning after pill, like it's no big thing. I still think it should be an option, though, and not just for defects or it being dangerous to the mother.

What options are you talking about? Adoption? That still requires her to actually go through with the birth.

And that is the point of contention, as I said. If I am wrong about my views on fetus = human life then I can still live with the consequences of my views.

You and me both. And what other circumstances would warrant it?

That seems like a better option than killing an innocent child, isn't it (assume it from my point of view as fetus = unborn innocent human child)?

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think abortion as a form of birth control is a far overstated issue. It's basically the boogeyman of the pro-life movement. I'm not denying that it may happen, but it's definitely a small minority. Abortions are both too expensive, too emotionally and physically taxing, and too stigmatised for almost anyone to use it as birth control.

Will need to double check on the vailidity of the below stats, but got this from a simple google search.

Abortion for Contraception

Although most abortions are performed for birth control, they are by no means contraceptive. Abortion involves ending the life of a developing human being by a number of surgical and medical techniques.

Abortion as Birth Control

Using abortion as birth control means that abortion is being used as a back-up method to ineffective or improperly used contraception, or no contraception is being used at all. Of women having abortions,

46% did not use contraception during the month they became pregnant
8% never used a method of birth control
47% have had at least one previous abortion

Although there are situations in which abortion is in response to health concerns of the mother or fetus, or in response to pregnancy arising from abuse, the majority of abortions are obtained for social and financial reasons. The primary reasons given for choosing abortion are given below.

75% say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities
about 75% say they cannot afford a child
50% do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner

Using abortion as birth control is not healthy physically or psychologically, and is not a mature or responsible approach to sex. Women obtaining abortions are at higher risk for reproductive tract infections, including HIV/AIDS and PID. If you are using abortion as birth control, you are encouraged to rethink your sexual decisions. You might wait on sex until you find a relationship where you could continue a pregnancy should one occur.

http://www.contracept.org/abortifacient.php

Edit. Here is the source if my source:

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Will need to double check on the vailidity of the below stats, but got this from a simple google search.

Abortion for Contraception

Although most abortions are performed for birth control, they are by no means contraceptive. Abortion involves ending the life of a developing human being by a number of surgical and medical techniques.

Abortion as Birth Control

Using abortion as birth control means that abortion is being used as a back-up method to ineffective or improperly used contraception, or no contraception is being used at all. Of women having abortions,

46% did not use contraception during the month they became pregnant
8% never used a method of birth control
47% have had at least one previous abortion

Although there are situations in which abortion is in response to health concerns of the mother or fetus, or in response to pregnancy arising from abuse, the majority of abortions are obtained for social and financial reasons. The primary reasons given for choosing abortion are given below.

75% say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities
about 75% say they cannot afford a child
50% do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner

Using abortion as birth control is not healthy physically or psychologically, and is not a mature or responsible approach to sex. Women obtaining abortions are at higher risk for reproductive tract infections, including HIV/AIDS and PID. If you are using abortion as birth control, you are encouraged to rethink your sexual decisions. You might wait on sex until you find a relationship where you could continue a pregnancy should one occur.

http://www.contracept.org/abortifacient.php

Edit. Here is the source if my source:

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

Yeah, I suppose I should have been more clear. I meant people who consciously choose to have unprotected sex relying on abortion if and when they get pregnant.

That abortion is used as a form of secondary or emergency birth control, that's definitely true (I mean by definition, all abortions are a form of birth control). My bad in mixing up terms.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, I suppose I should have been more clear. I meant people who consciously choose to have unprotected sex relying on abortion if and when they get pregnant.

That abortion is used as a form of secondary or emergency birth control, that's definitely true (I mean by definition, all abortions are a form of birth control). My bad in mixing up terms.

But I don't think even the pro-lifers are using that as a "boogeyman" at all. I mean, when did pro-life push the narrative of ppl having unprotected sex with abortion as their primary fallback? I mean what kind of fool would ever knowingly consider something as demeaning as an invasive medical procedure as abortion over simpler, easier contraception just so that would have unprotected sex? I have never heard of such a narrative from the pro-life movement and I would like to know where you even got such a notion.

It has always been about ppl who never even considered getting pregnant at all. Or those who had bad/misinformed contapraceptive practices or those that just didn't care/were too immature to even consider the consequences.

I think liberals talk about abortion and guns more then conservatives. Its actually pretty obvious that is all they talk about. Ironically, abortion and guns are both legal, but they want to ban guns, and keep killing babies..

Such hypocrites.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think abortion as a form of birth control is a far overstated issue. It's basically the boogeyman of the pro-life movement. I'm not denying that it may happen, but it's definitely a small minority. Abortions are both too expensive, too emotionally and physically taxing, and too stigmatised for almost anyone to use it as birth control.

That was to him, right?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
And that is the point of contention, as I said. If I am wrong about my views on fetus = human life then I can still live with the consequences of my views.

You and me both. And what other circumstances would warrant it?

That seems like a better option than killing an innocent child, isn't it (assume it from my point of view as fetus = unborn innocent human child)?

if I had the same opinion as you, then yes, I'd likely agree with you. But I don't, so I don't.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I think liberals talk about abortion and guns more then conservatives. Its actually pretty obvious that is all they talk about. Ironically, abortion and guns are both legal, but they want to ban guns, and keep killing babies..

Such hypocrites.

Might want to actually contribute instead of trying to wind people up, you know.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That was to him, right?

if I had the same opinion as you, then yes, I'd likely agree with you. But I don't, so I don't.

Might want to actually contribute instead of trying to wind people up, you know.

This conversation is over!

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
This conversation is over!

Pretty sure it isn't.

Silly liberal.

Just eat your lucky charms, heathen.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That makes perfect sense if we don't take the realities of societal pressure into account.

I'm suprised though about your stance on this. As Germany's native population is in decline. Less and less Germans are having kids. Why have you guys stopped having kids? Most family's are having no more then one child now if any.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I think liberals talk about abortion and guns more then conservatives.

If KMC is any indicator, that is incorrect, the "They want to ban mah guns/bullets!" and "baby killers!" threads are mostly from people who generally have conservative views.

And OP post doesn't outweigh the strong liberal response though.

What I said does hold weight. Both are legal yet they want to ban guns and allow birth control.