Originally posted by Zenwolf
I never found him being incompetent really, he handled the AT-ATs well, he beat the snot out of Zeb, I think he did a few other things I can't remember. But I don't recall him being incompetent...but then again I don't rewatch old episodes so I may have missed something.Chopper I think Rebels tries too hard on him tbh.
I guess. I'm more referring to how it almost feels that he is defeated virtually every other episode.
Originally posted by ares834
I guess. I'm more referring to how it almost feels that he is defeated virtually every other episode.
Ahh...well yeah there's that. Which is what as Tempest said, the writers going in the opposite direction of what they said before.
I like Rebels don't get me wrong, I hope the mid-season is fantastic...it's just...it's kinda hard to believe the Rebellion had so much trouble when the Empire just doesn't fit what the OT showed them as.
Originally posted by ares834Separitists as it usually goes hand in hand. Vader also showed up and lost to a bunch of ragtag rebels. That isn't very effective now is it ?
So your point is irrelevant to the thread. This thread is about which are the more effective and entertaining villains not which are more powerful.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
This, otherwise...why have an Empire at all?Also Ares I think so...but I can't find the quote now.
Precisely. The lack of a challenging bad guy and the titular rebels being too inconsequential for the likes of Vader and Tarkin is precisely why I think TCW did it a lot better.
The empire obviously became complacent due to the weakness of those who opposed it. Palpatine scoffed at the mere notion that they posed a legitimate threat to his empire. This is something not new to human nature in general. This many years in power made them weaker IMO and less sharp. Palpatine took no chances with the Jedi and attacked them as shrewdly and without mercy ASAP. He didn't have the same ruthlessness to the rebels.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Precisely. The lack of a challenging bad guy and the titular rebels being too inconsequential for the likes of Vader and Tarkin is precisely why I think TCW did it a lot better.
You think the CIS was more formidable in TCW? Frankly, I'd completely disagree. Even with Dooku at the forefront I never found them threatening. And I'm unsure why you don't consider the Inquisitor a challenging bad guy when he spanked Kanan and Co.
Originally posted by ares834
You think the CIS was more formidable in TCW? Frankly, I'd completely disagree. Even with Dooku at the forefront I never found them threatening. And I'm unsure why you don't consider the Inquisitor a challenging bad guy when he spanked Kanan and Co.
The Inquisitor was challenging sure, but it takes more than just mere individuals to make an Empire threatening.
I'm probably too deeply rooted in the old Legends where every single part of the GE was effective. From the ground troops, to the pilots, to the officers all the way up to the SpecForce and Force Wielders.
I hope this new EU does the same, I really do. But Rebels, I don't feel that much, the individuals sure but as a whole no. But I get it, it's a show aimed at kids so I can give some leeway to it.
I'm thinking of random examples: the Malevolence decimating fleets in season 1, the commando droids wreaking havoc regularly, droids laying waste to the Republic garrison on Scipio, Grievous's invasion of Kamino, droids boarding the Republic shuttle spiriting away Fives and gunning down the opposition, Mar Tuuk defeating Anakin in the invasion of Ryloth, etc.
Plenty of badass moments from the Separatists where they defeat or challenge a far greater enemy than the Empire is up against.
Originally posted by The_Tempest👆
I'm thinking of random examples: the Malevolence decimating fleets in season 1, the commando droids wreaking havoc regularly, droids laying waste to the Republic garrison on Scipio, Grievous's invasion of Kamino, droids boarding the Republic shuttle spiriting away Fives and gunning down the opposition, Mar Tuuk defeating Anakin in the invasion of Ryloth, etc.Plenty of badass moments from the Separatists where they defeat or challenge a far greater enemy than the Empire is up against.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I think the CIS has been by and large far more formidable than the Empire in Rebels, yeah. Zenwolf touched on some examples...
That it's a full scale war? The only threatening thing from the basic troops of the CIS is there sheer numbers something we know the Empire has as well. Regardless, neither the CIS or the Empire seem to have truly formidable troops.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
And Dooku has spanked greater than Kanan and Ezra.
Of course he has. But you claimed that you want more threatening figures from the Empire besides the top dogs. So I brought up the Grand Inquisitor because he is a villain created by the show that served as a "challenging bad guy" for the Rebels. And he is every bit as challenging for the Rebels as Dooku was for TCW crew.
Yeah but you mentioned Dooku, so I thought you were comparing him to the Inquisitor. He'd eat Inky alive.
Nah, the commando droids, droidekas, and even super battle droids outperform stormtroopers. Go back and watch the first episode of the Order 66 arc: specifically where the super battle droids attack the fleeing Republic shuttle carrying Fives.
And the Empire deploys their far greater numbers against the Rebels all the time. The Seps still do it better, honestly.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm thinking of random examples: the Malevolence decimating fleets in season 1, the commando droids wreaking havoc regularly, droids laying waste to the Republic garrison on Scipio, Grievous's invasion of Kamino, droids boarding the Republic shuttle spiriting away Fives and gunning down the opposition, Mar Tuuk defeating Anakin in the invasion of Ryloth, etc.Plenty of badass moments from the Separatists where they defeat or challenge a far greater enemy than the Empire is up against.
After a hundred episode sure, of course you are going to have more badass moments. And let's face it, the Empire in Rebels never had as bad a moment as this:
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yeah but you mentioned Dooku, so I thought you were comparing him to the Inquisitor. He'd eat Inky alive.
In a battle sure. But I'm unsure of such relevance here.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, the commando droids, droidekas, and even super battle droids outperform stormtroopers. Go back and watch the first episode of the Order 66 arc: specifically where the super battle droids attack the fleeing Republic shuttle carrying Fives.
Sure they do. I've never said otherwise. But the bulk of the CIS's troops are B1 Battle droids who are far more incompetent than the Stormtroopers ever were.
Originally posted by ares834
After a hundred episode sure, of course you are going to have more badass moments. And let's face it, the Empire in Rebels never had as bad a moment as this:
Like I said: more exposure also affords more opportunity to screw up.
That episode pit droids designed to be made cheaply and in mass numbers against the most powerful Jedi ever. Stormtroopers are still advertised as elite shock troops and can't manage no-name Jedi wannabes and a Mandalorian hipster.
But you said the CIS lacks formidable troops. They don't. Commando droids, super battle droids, and droidekas are all standard infantry to some extent. They're not the equivalent of even an Jnquisitor. And stormtroopers are still advertised as elite shock troops.