THE FORCE AWAKENS - discussion with SPOILERS!!!

Anything that isn't Luke actively training someone else to be a jedi at all times is him actively quitting on his responsibilities and his mission.

I understand Abrams needed to keep him out of the action of the movie so the new characters would have something to do. It wasn't necessary to do that by putting him on the FailLoserQuit bus.

He could've been kept out of the action because he's busy protecting younglings at his new Jedi Order's temple from the First Order rather then confronting the First Order head on. Ya know. The kind of choices Yoda typically had to make in the prequels. When you're in charge, you can't be everywhere.

maybe rushing to train children was exactly what got him in such trouble. could be that he left the trail to the temple and was waiting to be found, as a test of sorts.

As I noted before, consider the idea that Luke has withdrawn for good reason- he may not be sulking (well, not entirely); there may be a big issue that means he HAS to get out od dodge. My total guess is 'Skywalker curse'- he literally cannot do it himself without the Dark Side coming and wrecking it all.

If Luke was just gone out of misery, then a. there'd be no point looking for him and b. he wouldn't have left clues.

This is definitely a mystery they have set up- it'll be a point of speculation for the next 18 months.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
18 months.

i got a little tingly. only a year and a half till ep 8. am i dead? is this heaven?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well... except they do actually directly say that only a fully-trained Jedi can stop the Emperor. That is actually the entire setup. It's also how it is MEANT to seem, and is also the entire point of the Chosen One plot. So I have to disagree here- the defeat is meant to be literal and direct.

Defeat the Sith? yeah. Orchestrate the salvation of the galaxy? No. Those are different things.

Originally posted by Bentley
Defeat the Sith? yeah. Orchestrate the salvation of the galaxy? No. Those are different things.

Err, well, the conversation is kinda abut the first bit.

Originally posted by Angelalex242

The powerful Jedi and Sith of the prequels are just...gone, it seems. And they ain't ever coming back.

One can only hope...

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I do wish you'd read my posts- this isn't about Luke being in ROTJ at all, it's about the difference he made by going to the Death Star- and indeed, the ultimate ending of the entire Chosen One storyline. Luke going there should have been the big move that made all the difference- as it is, from what we see on-screen, it was irrelevant to the battle.

And it's a shame, because in terms of the character drama, Luke on the Death Star is pretty much the best part of ROTJ.

I still think he was a big distraction to Vader and the Emperor by going to the Death Star.

Otherwise it's unlikely Vader would have just sat in the Emperor's throne room with him. He would have either gone down to Endor himself to ensure the safety of the Shield generator, or gone out in his Tie fighter aiding in the battle like he did in ANH.

Granted that's not a guaranteed loss for the Rebellion (going by just the movies and ignoring the current Disney comic books where Vader is literally soloing fleets). But it would have at least opened the door to other outcomes of that battle.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I still think he was a big distraction to Vader and the Emperor by going to the Death Star.

Otherwise it's unlikely Vader would have just sat in the Emperor's throne room with him. He would have either gone down to Endor himself to ensure the safety of the Shield generator, or gone out in his Tie fighter aiding in the battle like he did in ANH.

no, he would have gone to the command ship to await the emperor's orders, as he was commanded to do.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
no, he would have gone to the command ship to await the emperor's orders, as he was commanded to do.

Once the battle started?

palps said to vader when he arrived at the deathstar "in time he will seek you out, and when he does, you must bring him before me". it seems that this was vader's only use to him at that point (hiring his own replacement). its likely then that he did not want to risk losing vader (and by extension, luke) to a chance blaster shot or some lucky rebel pilot. or else, why command him to sit and do nothing on the command ship, when he knew well that the battle was about to commence.

Originally posted by JediRobin23
Oh, it left with questions all right.....

Didn't Luke look cool at the end...

He certainly did. Of the original 3, I thought Luke by far looked the best.

It may change upon a second viewing, but here are some of my thoughts.

WHAT I LIKED:

Daisey Ridley. She gave an awesome performance and her overall look and character fits perfectly into the Star Wars universe.

Poe: Absolutely loved Oscar Isac. He is likable the minute he starts being sarcastic during the interrogation scene. I felt he was honestly underused. He has potential to be this generations Han Solo.

BB-8: What a ham! Enough said. Loved him.

Harrison Ford: He nailed it. Does anything else need to be said? 😉

WHAT I DIDN'T LIKE:

Finn: Felt he was rather pointless in the context of the narrative. Boyega did a fine job acting wise, but I just couldn't get into the character. I really wish his role and Poe's were reversed.

Maz Kanata: For a movie that made superb use out of real characters and set pieces, this felt really out of place.

Carrie Fisher: 🙁 This is sad.

Too many unanswered questions: Who was Max Von Sydow’s character and why did he have the map? How did a lightsaber that went missing down a huge hole 30 years ago end up in Maz' possession? How did Poe survive? Did Maz Kanata survive the temple attack? Who was the random women in that semi-joker looking outfit that snitched on Han, Rey and Finn to the First order in Maz' castle? Why did Kylo Ren turn bad? How did R2-D2 suddenly wake up. Did Kylo Ren and Hux survive the starkiller base? How did Rey suddenly tap into the force? Some unanswered questions are fine, but there are far too many here. Rian Johnson should not have to back-pedal and answer so many things that were unexplained. I would have been fine with just wondering about the mystery of Rey's parentage, even thought it feels obvious, and who Snoke is.

Plot convenience: Of all ships sitting on Jakku...it's the Millenium Falcon. Then, of all people to find it first in the freighter scene, it's Han and Chewie........?

Pacing: It was jarring at times, and I felt the narrative was a tad sloppy because of it. There was a lack of establishing shots and characters really felt like they were popping up all over the place without knowing how or why. Kylo Ren is standing on the bridge of a Star Destroyer once second, and the literally 2 shots later he just pops up in the forest.

Han's Death: The scene was well executed, but the aftermath was not. We are asked expected to mourn a tragic death without hardly any interaction between the two or even knowing much about Kylo Ren's past at all. Also, the characters barely even mourn him. It's kind of an afterthought. WTF?

Unoriginal: Starkiller base.......come......on..............It really had nothing to do with anything and didn't really play into any sort of character arc for Rey. The first 3rd of the film as well borrowed heavily from ANH.

Overall, I would give the movie 3 out of 5 stars, equivalent to a 6 out of 10. I take 2 points off for treading far too close to being a reboot of ANH, and another 2 for pretty much not explaining the state of anything. I think it's a fair score for a film that wasn't terrible, but not exceptional either. It was a nostalgic ride that was great to see old timers back, but I felt it left a lot to be desired as well. I hope Rian Johnson gets a little more original and creative with the next one.

i find your review to be both unfair and surprisingly positive.

What if...
What if Luke has his "no, I am your father" scene on VIII?
What if Luke is the one who kills all of his students in a burst of power trying to stop the Ren Knights? Hence he got away and secluded himself to avoid revealing the source of that power to Ben/Kylo.
I loved the movie, I didnt care about plot holes or reboot stories. On the OT, the Death Star thing was used twice! Why then this movie can´t use it again but bigger? It´s kind of a homage being repetitive.
The family issues on Solo-Organa are heavy stuff. I expect more on that.
On the OT, things happen in media res, and then goes to a grand finale where the characters become our heroes.
We are beginning in media res again: "luke has vanished, the first order is growing stronger", and simple, casual characters are now becoming heroes.
Funny, cheesy space opera. Like the old times.
100% Star Wars for me.

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-novelization/

One thing is much clearer in the book than the film: Snoke is afraid of Luke Skywalker. In his final conversation with Kylo Ren, before Rey escapes, Snoke is prepared to destroy an entire system so no one finds where Luke is, himself included. Destroying the Resistance is Hux’s motivation, but he is practical, seeing that the system has vital resources the First Order could use. Snoke will have none of it. Destroy the system so that no one can ever find Luke Skywalker. It may appear bold and sadistic in the film, but in the novel, it reads as desperate. Snoke constantly speaks to either destroying Luke via Kylo Ren or the First Order’s military, or making sure Luke stays where he is.

The biggest hints at Rey’s Skywalker lineage are from Kylo Ren’s perceptions of Rey. Just like the film, Kylo is noticeably shaken when, in addition to his inability to probe Rey’s mind as much as he would like, she can get inside of his. My, and many fans reading, will probably note another line of dialogue in the novelization that was absent from the film. It’s the moment when Kylo Ren calls Luke’s lightsaber to him and it flies right past him and into Rey’s hands. In the novelization, Kylo says to himself, “It is you”. To me, this says Kylo knew Rey or a direct descendant of Luke Skywalker was out there. Perhaps it was the one thing he kept from Snoke, whether that was Ben Solo keeping it from Snoke or Kylo, it seems Rey’s ability in the Force makes something CLICK in Kylo Ren’s head. Again, nothing solid, but much more brow raising when you read it in print. I won’t hypothesize the why or how Kylo may know, but I think this strongly suggests he does, and that is another reason the line was eventually cut from the film.

Just seen it the second time around. This movie was better the second time around as I got rid of my initial impossible expectations...

The best thing is there are no plot holes. None, that I know of anyway. The big question to me was how Maz got Luke's/anakins blue lightsaber. I missed what she said the first time I saw it, but Maz did say, that's a story for another time. Hence, someone had to have found it in cloud city.

I must have been sleeping the first time, but didn't notice R2D2 was in low power mode at the resistance base..

I rank this movie as my third favourite still being behind ROTJ and ROTS. On par with esb

a big clue for me is how she claims knowledge of the force. (weak emphasis on 'knowledge", likely.) when weighed with the fact that in the current universe the jedi are once again the stuff of commonly doubtable myth, for her to claim such an intimate knowledge suggests to me that she knows luke or leia...or at least had a chat with him/her ...or at the very least, someone close to them.

So back from the movie and while it was awesome....I'm not really understanding a few things here, which I guess the EU will probably clear up. But at face value I'm left going WTH at well....a lot of things.

Yeah, I thought that too. Maz knows things about the force but more from an observer and perhaps experience. She being wise enough to give guidance. My guess, is she knows who Rey truly is

Oh, when Rey started walking down the stairs towards the box with a lightsaber, it was totally like the esb cave scene with luke...

i think that was deliberate. it seems that the jedi are able to cast lingering spells on places and objects. i used to assume that the cave was just some sort of natural anomaly, but there's no doubt in my mind that luke put some juju on that lightsaber, so now i believe yoda did the same with that cave.