THE FORCE AWAKENS - discussion with SPOILERS!!!

furthermore, han was the one who told everyone they had to go back and bomb the place.
the other heroes were well ready to flee, so there was his last act of heroism.
just happened before he died instead of the cliche wet dream of him crashing the falcon into some key target and sealing victory. yawn.

That would have been terribly cliche.

No, I think Han got a good death. He was never the MAIN character of the OT. He got wonderful shots/setting where he was killed and he fell nicely. It's basically an OB1 death.

kinda echoed old ben's abrupt end. nobody was ever like "wow what a glorious death".

Indeed. And Han Solo did have the OB1 role in this movie.

Originally posted by queeq
I don't get the casual death thing. Other have mentioned it. The power of the scene is actually before Han steps out and calls Ben. You see him wondering if he should do something and you see it's his last desperate act as a father to do something. So getting killed came as a surprise to him. But it was probably something Kylo had wanted to do for a long time. Hardly anything casual about it, if you ask me.

And Kylo has got more depth than Vader had in ANH. Kylo is an immature person with a lot of power. That makes him interesting, makes him dangerous and unpredictable. I wanna see more of him. So unlike PT Anakin who was always angry and blamed other people. PT Anakin was not immature, he was mentally disturbed as we see him AOTC and ROTS. Someone who's got a few wires loose in the upstairs server room.

Nope, Kylo is way more interesting than PT Anakin.

Vader didn't need depth. What matters is the voyage. If a character's depth serves the voyage then add that depth, but if it's not necessary, then why bother? Vader was the dark lord. He didn't need depth in ANH. We knew everything we had to know from his actions.

Also what's with these comparisons with PT?

Han Solo was an iconic character. There was no sense of loss after he was killed by supposedly his own son. Both of their stories had barely been established when Han was erased.

Originally posted by Kurk
Yeah I get what you're saying; destroying your own equipment isn't exactly helping your cause. They could've had him channel his anger more productively.

I guess he could kill high ranking admirals, those are easy to come by after all, much cheaper than some consoles.

for all we know it was just the coffee maker

why does kylo ren wear a mask does he really need it ?

he's the ultimate darth vader fanboy.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I guess he could kill high ranking admirals, those are easy to come by after all, much cheaper than some consoles.

Originally posted by coolmovies
why does kylo ren wear a mask does he really need it ?

Intimidation mostly.

Ok, FINALLY seen it- trying to organise my friends these days is tricky.

Liked it a lot. Bit too much OT-styled Abrams fan-service (and yes, another planet-killing weapon is not the way I would like to have seen it) but I can live with all that- a reasonable enough plot, a well-realised villain, some good emotional moments, the sabre fights were pretty good (Abrams' comments had worried me there but he found a good middle ground between OT and PT, and Ren losing was reasonable in context) and, overall, it didn't cock anything up in the ways I was fearing it might.

In the first four lines, it mentioned Jedi needed for the balance of the Force, which means- whatever else may happen or wherever it goes- they've kept that central part of what Lucas wanted in the PT.

Han Solo dying was great emotion- set up well, executed well, meaningful for the story. The only thing that annoys me about it structurally is Han never meeting Luke. That said- no body. We'll see.

Now they have a lot to live up to, because we need a more character-focussed second part to go into the many mysteries left (who is Snoke, what happened with Ren, who is Rey and why was she abandoned, what's the full deal with Luke, and so on and so forth)- and presumably we have to have the bad guys come out on top, ESB style. Difficult to get right.

All in all, happy.

Just came back from it.

It moved really, really fast. At some point characters felt like they were talking over one another. It also felt like they were going from location to location in split seconds.
I honestly had a hard time following it. I think I left with more questions than answers.

I'll need another viewing before I can digest everything. The action was great though.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
My most major complaints:

1.) The force's portrayal, and how it was treated/discussed by the characters
2.) The pacing in general
3.) The repeat Death Star plot, and how little it seemed to matter. I.E I felt nothing but disappointment when SK blew up.
4.) Rey's insane, out of nowhere lightsaber mastery and super cheesy oneness moment.

Watched its gain today. Got a little milder about the sabre fight. For one, Finn doesn't really stand a chance again Kylo. He gets hammered, Kylo takes it easy, gets surprised with one blow (underestimated Finn's resolve).

In the Rey fight, she actually gets drive back most of the time. And... Kylo doesn't want to kill her because ehe has to bring her back to Snoke. So here too he's hurt (twice) and he tries to breng Rey back alive. That she actually beats him, cutting across his face was maybe a bit too much. Maybe it would have been better if the canyon that formed would have ended the fight. But heck, the fight was good, gritty, two people just hacking away at each other. It works.

And by seeing it again: the pacing is fine. This movie has so much going for it, I will forgive a lot.

Originally posted by Gambler
Vader didn't need depth. What matters is the voyage. If a character's depth serves the voyage then add that depth, but if it's not necessary, then why bother? Vader was the dark lord. He didn't need depth in ANH. We knew everything we had to know from his actions.

Also what's with these comparisons with PT?

Han Solo was an iconic character. There was no sense of loss after he was killed by supposedly his own son. Both of their stories had barely been established when Han was erased.

Vader didn't need depth in ANH, agreed. But he did get quite a bit op depth in ESB. To make a villain like that last, he has to have some depth. And we're in EPVII now, we've come a long way in the SW stories, I think bringing a character that already has some range and depth is just great. Kylo Ren is the type where things have to get a lot worse before it gets better. In Vader's case, he was at his worst in ANH. Meeting his son began to change him.
In Kylo 's case, killing his dad was the beginning of his real decent into the Dark Side. Same kind of story, different starting point.

Originally posted by Sith Master X
Just came back from it.

It moved really, really fast. At some point characters felt like they were talking over one another. It also felt like they were going from location to location in split seconds.
I honestly had a hard time following it. I think I left with more questions than answers.

I'll need another viewing before I can digest everything. The action was great though.

Oh, it left with questions all right.....

Didn't Luke look cool at the end...

A bit sad, though...

that's what makes my own theories on luke a bit doubtful. he had a look as if he had spent the last 20 years praying that nobody would ever find him, including rey, yet there's evidence to speculate that luke deliberately left a trail to the ancient temple.

Or maybe he got caught by surprise as he was taking a leak off that mountain cliff and he wasn't done yet.

Originally posted by Sinious
👆 I would add Finn being a match for Ren to that though.

I just think that whole Saber fight shouldn't have been in the movie. There was no one in this movie to challenge Ren, so don't force a Saber fight with him into it just for the sake of it.

But they wanted to sell it for the marketing. And the marketing for this has certainly paid off.