Who is Snoke?

Originally posted by Ushgarak

I think it is slightly absurd- and rather limited in vision- to outright declare that Snoke not being a Sith is bad writing. Give other ideas a chance. Let these people tell their own story. I would personally claim that as the entire point of the original six films is that Anakin permanently destroys the Sith, saying that there was another one left is hardly brilliant writing- I'd live with it, but I'd much prefer an alternative.

Eh. It would be akin to (in my opinion) Luke saying 'Yeah I'm not a Jedi anymore, just a Light Sith'. I'd find the lack of Sith disturbing. But yeah it could work.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Serkis mentioned that he is thousands of years old- that's not completely authoritative but it seems likely. He seems like an anti-Yoda. It leaves the door open for him being a non-Sith Dark Sider from an earlier time... or not. We'll see.

I mean this is a fair point. I didn't mind the Ones of Mortis in spite of them coming out of nowhere. So I guess I need to wipe the cum of the original 6 out of my eyes. But I like the idea of Snoke being a Sith. But now that I think about it Maz Kanata does say she's seen the Dark Side take multiple forms.

I, personally, want Snoke to *not* be a sith. 1-6 were to a large extent, the story of the fall of the Sith. We've already got the Legends timeline to see what Sith constantly reoccuring like weeds is like, and besides, the Sith were a specific philosophy of the dark side. If it's something else, then we will get a contrast between them and the sith.

I dunno... I hop he doesn't turn out to be a hobbit or a troll. Coz/ he looks like a combo of the two.

So we can expect another 18 months of "Is he or isn't he Plagueis" 😂

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/dec/30/star-wars-the-force-awakens-villain-snoke-darth-plagueis

I fear so... But I agree with that article.

I agree that it shouldn't be Palgueis. The last point in that article, for me, is the main reason why:

If he comes back, then the whole story of the Sith being overthrown, which was to bring balance back to the force, completely negates that. The first 6 films would be undercut. It would be like taking a shit on the entire story. That can't happen. It has to be a different group. A group that does not represent an unnatural imbalance in the force.

Ushagarak has talked about this before and I forgot how he explained it but the Dark Side is not necessarily an imbalance to the force. It is how the Sith use the Force which is the imbalance. So there can be a Dark Side Force user that does not create imbalance to the Force. Ushgarak, maybe you could clear that up: I don't quite understand how that all worked.

Well we are always somewhat groping here because GL never put the explanation on screen and we have to interpret as best we can from his interviews and what-not.

From what GL suggests, it seems the Light Side is fundamentally about balanced symbiosis- working together for the common good- and the Dark Side is about imbalanced paraticism- things feed off each other to destruction (he tries t put this symbiosis thing in with the Gungans and Naboo in TPM, but like a lot of his grand ideas for the PT it's not actually very well realised on-screen).

That would suggest it need not necessarily be the Sith that do it- any time the Dark Side becomes triumphant there is a Balance issue. But the tenor of the previous filsm certainly seemed to be that it was the Sith who had the cosmic power to do the ob; they were the big threat.

Where that leaves Snoke is unclear, but I find it significant how worried he is about the Jedi returning. As was mentioned at the start of the film, there can be no balance without the Jedi, so they are needed to keep it in balance. One interpretation here is that whilst the Sith had the power actively to imbalance the Force even as the Jedi were trying to protect it, Snoke is only in power in the Jedi's absence.

Anyway, I agree with you- I think I raised that point about the whole point of the first six films in one of these threads earlier.

The Visual Dictionary states that Snoke encourages Kylo to use both the Light and Dark sides of the force. Evidently Snoke believes that amalgamating both sides creates the ideal Force user:
http://i.imgur.com/X2Egw6L.jpg

If Snoke himself practices the same discipline, then perhaps they wouldn't throw the Force out of balance, as both sides are still being used [relatively] equally?

Dunno. srug

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well we are always somewhat groping here because GL never put the explanation on screen and we have to interpret as best we can from his interviews and what-not.

From what GL suggests, it seems the Light Side is fundamentally about balanced symbiosis- working together for the common good- and the Dark Side is about imbalanced paraticism- things feed off each other to destruction (he tries t put this symbiosis thing in with the Gungans and Naboo in TPM, but like a lot of his grand ideas for the PT it's not actually very well realised on-screen).

That would suggest it need not necessarily be the Sith that do it- any time the Dark Side becomes triumphant there is a Balance issue. But the tenor of the previous filsm certainly seemed to be that it was the Sith who had the cosmic power to do the ob; they were the big threat.

Where that leaves Snoke is unclear, but I find it significant how worried he is about the Jedi returning. As was mentioned at the start of the film, there can be no balance without the Jedi, so they are needed to keep it in balance. One interpretation here is that whilst the Sith had the power actively to imbalance the Force even as the Jedi were trying to protect it, Snoke is only in power in the Jedi's absence.

Anyway, I agree with you- I think I raised that point about the whole point of the first six films in one of these threads earlier.

Thanks, that does help. But there are still some unanswered questions that we'll have to wait for Ep 8 or even 9 to find out. I hope Ep 8 delivers some answers.

Originally posted by Galan007
The Visual Dictionary states that Snoke encourages Kylo to use both the Light and Dark sides of the force. Evidently Snoke believes that amalgamating both sides creates the ideal Force user:
http://i.imgur.com/X2Egw6L.jpg

If Snoke himself practices the same discipline, then perhaps they wouldn't throw the Force out of balance, as both sides are still being used [relatively] equally?

Dunno. srug

This is an interesting piece of information. Ren seemed like quite the Dark Side user after the events of TFA, though. There doesn't seem to be any lightside to him, at all since he killed Han. He seems just as far gone as Vader after Vader killed Obi Wan (but I am contradicting myself because Vader turns back...but what turned Vader back was "a father's love for his son"...so I'm not sure he can be redeemed like Vader was).

The same entry still credits Kylo as a 'dark side user'... He is evidently just encouraged to use light-sided abilities/powers as well. Maybe that mixture of light and dark is enough to keep the Force relatively balanced? Not sure... Just trying to connect the dots, is all.

Although The Visual Dictionary also implies that Snoke has multiple apprentices, and Kylo is simply the most powerful among them... We'll just have to wait and see how many of its factoids pan out in the films, I guess.

Originally posted by Galan007
The Visual Dictionary states that Snoke encourages Kylo to use both the Light and Dark sides of the force. Evidently Snoke believes that amalgamating both sides creates the ideal Force user:
http://i.imgur.com/X2Egw6L.jpg

If Snoke himself practices the same discipline, then perhaps they wouldn't throw the Force out of balance, as both sides are still being used [relatively] equally?

Dunno. srug

Dark side = imbalance. Using both- and I am not asure that's really what the VD means- would be imbalanced. The only way to be balanced is using the Light Side, no Dark.

We've only ever seen Ren be out and out Dark Side with his Force use, anyway. It's all anger and aggression.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Dark side = imbalance. Using both- and I am not asure that's really what the VD means- would be imbalanced. The only way to be balanced is using the Light Side, no Dark.

Originally posted by Galan007
I thought the existence of Mortis and The Ones in TCW showed us that both sides(light and dark) are needed to maintain proper balance on a universal level..? /shrug

As that is so clearly out of step with everything else we are shown and told, I think we'll have to discount that one.

Yup, balance=light. It has always been that simple in SW.

hardly that simple imo.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
As that is so clearly out of step with everything else we are shown and told, I think we'll have to discount that one.

this is exactly why i hated this 'TCW=cannon" rule ever since george lucas announced it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Like?

The entire concept of the Prophecy and the existence of Anakin and Luke. This is literally the central plot of the first six episodes. Destroying the Sith brings balance to the Force- this is the entire point.

Yup. Lucas explained this many times.

ok if it's so simple, then why did the jedi care about bringing balance to the force in ep1, when they clearly needed to be convinced that the sith still even existed? the prophecy was to "bring" balance. not "restore".