Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And?AotC Kenobi did it out of all people... 😂
Here's the painful truth: in the movies, Palpatine's lightning works only when he cheapshots people with it.
he knocked Yodas lightsaber out of his hand, how is Luke supposed to defend against something he knows nothing about? Kenobi knows about Force lightning the guys been a Jedi since birth so I'm sure that scenario has come up in training or something. Yoda may have said Lukes training was complete but I believe he meant in the sense of a electrician completing the basics course, dude still had a ways to go before he would become a master.
Originally posted by relentless1
he knocked Yodas lightsaber out of his hand, how is Luke supposed to defend against something he knows nothing about? Kenobi knows about Force lightning the guys been a Jedi since birth so I'm sure that scenario has come up in training or something. Yoda may have said Lukes training was complete but I believe he meant in the sense of a electrician completing the basics course, dude still had a ways to go before he would become a master.
Heh. Canonically, Kenobi knew nothing about FL either 🙂
Yoda has only 3 fingers. Mace blocked Sheev's lightning just fine...
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Heh. Canonically, Kenobi knew nothing about FL either 🙂Yoda has only 3 thingers. Mace blocked Sheev's lightning just fine...
thats why i said "probably" with Kenobi. Fact is, we can clearly see that the Jedi in the PT have much more knowledge and training than Luke did, its an established fact that Lukes 2 years of training <<<<<<<<<<<<< Jedi training since birth.
Originally posted by relentless1What does seasoned have to do with anything in the star wars universe? Look at Yoda vs Sidious, Rey verus Kylo, Luke vs Vader, Obi wan vs Maul.
no way, Luke wasn't a seasoned vet like those guy were with saber fights, he basically learned the basics over 2 years maximum while those masters had been training since birth. No comparison here. Even if Luke had his lightsaber he most likely wouldn't know how to use it to block FL.
The highest form of canon the movies, clearly shows that Luke had reach a point where he was able to face Vader head on. Yoda and Vader both confirm this where they state his skills are complete and no more training needed. Obi Wan also sends Luke to face Vader reconfirming that Luke is ready. Note Obi Wan expected Luke to kill Vader.
What is also of note is that Yoda was shock that Vader revealed that he was Luke's father showing that in combat it is Yoda's expectation that Vader would come at Luke with full force yet he sends Luke to face Vader. Since Luke could see both Obi Wan and Yoda as force ghost and communicate with them it is clear that Yoda and Obi wan could have continue to train Luke if they felt it was necessary.
No matter what contradictions may be out there, Yoda and Vader statements have never been taken out of the movies or changed. Neither has the fact that they sent Luke to face Vader.
There is no one who accompany Mace to face Sidious besides Mace himself that could face Vader one on one and have chance to win.
So by feats and statements alone Luke is clearly above those seasoned Jedi who were taken out so quickly by Sidious.
as Kurupt so likes to make use of, George Lucas himself stated that " all we see in the OT is an old man, a half man and not fully trained Luke, now we finally get to see the Jedi in their prime" or something to that effect in Phantom Menace commentary so even he believes that the Jedi from this era are naturally superior to anybody in the OT
Originally posted by relentless1Kt is a biased poster very similar to a superman fanatic picking and choosing when to apply George Lucas' thoughts.
as Kurupt so likes to make use of, George Lucas himself stated that " all we see in the OT is an old man, a half man and not fully trained Luke, now we finally get to see the Jedi in their prime" or something to that effect in Phantom Menace commentary so even he believes that the Jedi from this era are naturally superior to anybody in the OT
Originally posted by relentless1The sith were thought to have been gone forever and there were many Jedi and an era of peace. The PT being the prime for Jedi makes sense. However, this does not excuse what was written and displayed for Luke.
as Kurupt so likes to make use of, George Lucas himself stated that " all we see in the OT is an old man, a half man and not fully trained Luke, now we finally get to see the Jedi in their prime" or something to that effect in Phantom Menace commentary so even he believes that the Jedi from this era are naturally superior to anybody in the OT
What you are doing is like reading a book and clearly seeing the written words but then after listening to what the author felt he should have displayed as well as other critics, accepting their statements as the gospel.
Unless they change what was written in the movie script it is what it is.
@Kurupt: As for Fisto being able to go up against Vader in a saber battle, ok but how long would he last? Savage lasted longer against Sidious with less help than Fisto but Fisto can perform well against Vader in a saber battle. I don't agree at all. The battle would be very short from my perspective from what has been shown from the characters on screen.
Also for all the talk about Vader being old and half machine, well what was general grievous? He was a cyborg just like Vader and you wouldn't call him slow.
As for old, well so was Yoda, Sidious, Dooku, and Mace. Some of the most powerful force users ever to live as well skilled combatants. So I fail to see the weakness in Vader being old and a cyborg. Especially when he is one of the most powerful force users to ever live as well as skilled combatant.
Once again statements that clearly contradict was is displayed on film the highest form of canon should be dismissed.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Also for all the talk about Vader being old and half machine, well what was general grievous? He was a cyborg just like Vader and you wouldn't call him slow.As for old, well so was Yoda, Sidious, Dooku, and Mace. Some of the most powerful force users ever to live as well skilled combatants. So I fail to see the weakness in Vader being old and a cyborg. Especially when he is one of the most powerful force users to ever live as well as skilled combatant.
Once again statements that clearly contradict was is displayed on film the highest form of canon should be dismissed.
well the true fact of the matter is that special effects were shit back when the OT was out
Originally posted by Kotor3
The sith were thought to have been gone forever and there were many Jedi and an era of peace. The PT being the prime for Jedi makes sense. However, this does not excuse what was written and displayed for Luke.What you are doing is like reading a book and clearly seeing the written words but then after listening to what the author felt he should have displayed as well as other critics, accepting their statements as the gospel.
Unless they change what was written in the movie script it is what it is.
@Kurupt: As for Fisto being able to go up against Vader in a saber battle, ok but how long would he last? Savage lasted longer against Sidious with less help than Fisto but Fisto can perform well against Vader in a saber battle. I don't agree at all. The battle would be very short from my perspective from what has been shown from the characters on screen.
Just watch the clone wars for Fisto's feats. He does very well against The General, in fact, some say better than Kenobi. He also does very well against Ventress... Somebody both Anakin and Kenobi have struggled with at times (while other times they haven't). Point is, he has very few "movie only feats", but since the clone wars count on this forum, he has plenty of those. Yes, in a pure saber only duel, I see him doing well against Vader and lasting a good while. Maybe not winning, but he certainly wouldn't get rolled.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Also for all the talk about Vader being old and half machine, well what was general grievous? He was a cyborg just like Vader and you wouldn't call him slow.As for old, well so was Yoda, Sidious, Dooku, and Mace. Some of the most powerful force users ever to live as well skilled combatants. So I fail to see the weakness in Vader being old and a cyborg. Especially when he is one of the most powerful force users to ever live as well as skilled combatant.
Once again statements that clearly contradict was is displayed on film the highest form of canon should be dismissed.
The clear differences are as follows
1. Vader, and specified by Lucas, lost vast amounts of the force when his limbs were chopped off. His counts went from the most ever seen, to below that. So it wasn't just that he was vastly slower now, he also didn't have as much potential and force running through him
2. Mace, Yoda and Dooku, while older, didn't have a body cast of metal wrapped around them. They were still able to use the force to boost their speed and movement, even while old. Vader couldn't do the same because he had a permanent metal body cast on him
3. The general isn't nearly the same. He had arms that could make lightsabers swing around like a yo-yo. In fact, he was said to be able to deliver ____ strikes per second. It was a ridiculous number that alludes me right now. His speed was beyond Vaders.
Originally posted by relentless1Compared to today yes they are. One thing I will say that when they fought in the OT it always felt like real knights fighting. Skill and a lot of power.
well the true fact of the matter is that special effects were shit back when the OT was out
The PT movies they didn't seem like Jedi knights but Jedi ninjas. Only a few fights felt like the force was actually being used during the clash of the sabers.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiI am aware of a lot of feats for Fisto from Clone wars. Simply put as of ROTS Obi Wan made took down the General is a saber battle quite easily and quickly. Anakin took down the General teacher in ROTS quite easily and quickly.
Just watch the clone wars for Fisto's feats. He does very well against The General, in fact, some say better than Kenobi. He also does very well against Ventress... Somebody both Anakin and Kenobi have struggled with at times (while other times they haven't). Point is, he has very few "movie only feats", but since the clone wars count on this forum, he has plenty of those. Yes, in a pure saber only duel, I see him doing well against Vader and lasting a good while. Maybe not winning, but he certainly wouldn't get rolled.
While Fisto is powerful and skilled as of ROTS he is not on the level of Anakin or Obi Wan. So I am still not seeing how a more powerful version of Anakin, Vader, Fisto will do well against in a saber battle.
You seem to be under the assumption that Vader lack skill and speed because he was a cyborg. There is nothing in the movies that indicates this. Instead Vader as of ANH states that his power have not only increase but he is at his prime and has mastered his powers. (This would include his skill with a saber and ability to exercise his potential in the force in all areas that would enhance his ability as a fighter).
So, I still do not see how Fisto would last any length of time against Vader.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiLosing part of his force potential prevented him from surpassing Sidious who also had grown in power by the OT time. It did not mean that Vader was lower than Anakin. As state previously, ANH clearly confirms that Vader had grown in power and master his Sith abilities as well as the potential in the force that he did have available to him which was vastly more than Fisto. Wasn't Vader confirmed to be 80% of Sidious as of ROTJ?
The clear differences are as follows1. Vader, and specified by Lucas, lost vast amounts of the force when his limbs were chopped off. His counts went from the most ever seen, to below that. So it wasn't just that he was vastly slower now, he also didn't have as much potential and force running through him
2. Mace, Yoda and Dooku, while older, didn't have a body cast of metal wrapped around them. They were still able to use the force to boost their speed and movement, even while old. Vader couldn't do the same because he had a permanent metal body cast on him
3. The general isn't nearly the same. He had arms that could make lightsabers swing around like a yo-yo. In fact, he was said to be able to deliver ____ strikes per second. It was a ridiculous number that alludes me right now. His speed was beyond Vaders.
Please show me a quote or something that states Vader could not move fast or was slower than Anakin. Obi Wan couldn't beat him in ANH and Luke was able to out speed Vader just over power him.
Please provide proof that Vader could not increase his speed or power like Yoda, Dooku, Mace, or anyone with a non-cyborg body.
The General could move fast yes he could his cyborg body was made to do so. So this would logically bring to mind the it would be ridiculous for Vader to receive a cyborg body that would hinder him. Also the fact that Vader had the force which the General did not have.
I think you are using a lot of assumptions. The fact that Obi Wan and Luke were not able to boost their speed pass Vader is proof enough that Vader was not slow or slower then he was as Anakin.