Boros vs. Nanatsu no Taizaiverse

Originally posted by Q99
Actually, it's been noted only Flash is considered to go FTL.... Sundipped Superman is a lot stronger, but probably only a little faster.

I know, but Superman can go extremely close to light speed, meaning his sundipped form, which is 10X more powerful, would be conversely able to fly 10X faster. So 9X FTL wouldn't be a stretch.

Again, my point is that you scale things with canon information, if the author hasn't clearly defined it. The author typically doesn't have time to sit down, and chart all the calculations to make them accurate. They try to keep the feats accurate, and let them speak for themselves as the characters get too strong to keep tabs on. That's where minor inconsistencies lie, but with minimalist calcs we can determine the bare minimums. Which is what I'm doing.

SSJGogeta: in order to use Snatch, Ban has to hold his hand in his target(s)' direction, which was shown directly in the manga. He didn't use Snatch until halfway through the Byzel fight, AFTER he's shown throwing more punches than Meliodas could. So there's no way he could've been using Snatch prior to that otherwise Meliodas and the others would've noticed.

I'm not trying to downplay/ignore NnT feats, but I'm trying to get across Boros' feats, which you in turn seem to be trying to downplay.

Regarding your statement about Garou and Saitama, the author has actually stated that Garou at his strongest is approximately as powerful as Boros, with him (Garou) holding an advantage in close combat due to his martial arts training. Unlike Boros though, he lacks long range capabilities such as Boros' energy blasts and Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon (which I've seen some calcs putting its power at around 511 petatons and this is after Saitama's Serious Punch split/weakened it whilst also taking into account Boro's statement from the manga, which is different from the anime statement).

Originally posted by danteiscool
SSJGogeta: in order to use Snatch, Ban has to hold his hand in his target(s)' direction, which was shown directly in the manga. He didn't use Snatch until halfway through the Byzel fight, AFTER he's shown throwing more punches than Meliodas could. So there's no way he could've been using Snatch prior to that otherwise Meliodas and the others would've noticed.

I'm not trying to downplay/ignore NnT feats, but I'm trying to get across Boros' feats, which you in turn seem to be trying to downplay.

Regarding your statement about Garou and Saitama, the author has actually stated that Garou at his strongest is approximately as powerful as Boros, with him (Garou) holding an advantage in close combat due to his martial arts training. Unlike Boros though, he lacks long range capabilities such as Boros' energy blasts and Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon (which I've seen some calcs putting its power at around 511 petatons and this is after Saitama's Serious Punch split/weakened it whilst also taking into account Boro's statement from the manga, which is different from the anime statement).

Do you have the scan?

I'm definitely not downplaying Boros' feats. All I'm doing is being fair to NNT. The only feats Boros has is being able to compete with Saitama's normal speed, and having planetary life-wiping energy projection. Boros and Saitama don't have feats like being faster than lightning, or light, or anything like that. The most we can do is give bare minimum estimates for the two, since we don't have any real statements or feats for the two, other than scaling. TBH, if I wanted to lowball them, I'd say that they were both probably around Gilthunder in terms of speed. I'm definitely NOT lowballing either.

No, Garou in his monster form is a lot stronger than Boros. He was able to actually give Saitama trouble. Which is why I said that Garou or Saitama would individually solo the NNT verse, which I think we can both agree on.

No scans per say, just a link: http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Nanatsu-no-Taizai/Ch-034--Meliodaz-Versus-Baan?id=168511
Near the last few pages, you see King note Ban's and Melioda's distinct advantages (speed and power respectively) and on the last page, you see Meliodas stagger whilst Ban's hand is raised in his direction.

I can't help but feel that you are, if only unknowingly. I know earlier you mentioned a human being unable to outrun hitting a baseball particularly hard (or something along those lines), but the fact remains still that Boros' attacks in Meteoric Burst form still launched Saitama to the moon in 3 seconds, the initial blows of which he was still capable of catching up with Saitama to deliver more hits. Hell, in the anime - which extended the fight a bit - Boros was shown outspeeding Saitama even after smacking him around at full force. Saitama, in turn, has casually leapt from the moon back to earth in mere seconds, a casual speed that Boros has shown himself capable of at least reacting to. Furthermore, considering the shockwave Saitama made on the moon with his (again, casual) jump, he had unleashed a good petaton or two worth of sheer power... which the following blows he landed on Boros equaled or at least were highly comparable to.

Hmm, not necessarily stronger per say (he was clearly struggling a lot more against Saitama visibly than Boros had), but he was definitely tougher in that his regeneration worked faster and certainly extremely stubborn. And it's shown throughout the series that Saitama tends to hold back even more against humans than monsters, Garou included otherwise he'd have killed him.

Originally posted by danteiscool
No scans per say, just a link: http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Nanatsu-no-Taizai/Ch-034--Meliodaz-Versus-Baan?id=168511
Near the last few pages, you see King note Ban's and Melioda's distinct advantages (speed and power respectively) and on the last page, you see Meliodas stagger whilst Ban's hand is raised in his direction.

I can't help but feel that you are, if only unknowingly. I know earlier you mentioned a human being unable to outrun hitting a baseball particularly hard (or something along those lines), but the fact remains still that Boros' attacks in Meteoric Burst form still launched Saitama to the moon in 3 seconds, the initial blows of which he was still capable of catching up with Saitama to deliver more hits. Hell, in the anime - which extended the fight a bit - Boros was shown outspeeding Saitama even after smacking him around at full force. Saitama, in turn, has casually leapt from the moon back to earth in mere seconds, a casual speed that Boros has shown himself capable of at least reacting to. Furthermore, considering the shockwave Saitama made on the moon with his (again, casual) jump, he had unleashed a good petaton or two worth of sheer power... which the following blows he landed on Boros equaled or at least were highly comparable to.

Hmm, not necessarily stronger per say (he was clearly struggling a lot more against Saitama visibly than Boros had), but he was definitely tougher in that his regeneration worked faster and certainly extremely stubborn. And it's shown throughout the series that Saitama tends to hold back even more against humans than monsters, Garou included otherwise he'd have killed him.

Okay. Yeah, Ban is faster than Meliodas, and Meliodas is stronger in turn. Altogether, they're roughly even still, they just have specific traits which they excel in.

Jumping is no more of a speed feat than throwing is. There is a version of Superman that can jump from one planet to another, and he was STILL blitzed by Krypto, who has always been portrayed as far more nimble than Superman. There is a MASSIVE difference between being able to jump super high, and being able to move with accuracy at accelerated speeds. And nothing you've said has even contradicted my numbers, especially those related to throwing speed and running speed.

Again, I don't care about the anime. Manga is primary cannon here.

Um... No. Saitama was using his serious series, and Garou was still taking his hits. Boros' strongest attack was waved away just from the shockwave of a serious punch.

Prior to Meliodas' return to full power, at any rate. Unless Ban gets a more permanent power boost than what Snatch or Hunter Festival can provide.

Hmm, a valid point. Very well, how about this: can't remember the exact calc or where it originated from, but during the 'sparring' match between Saitama and Genos, the latter outran his own blast, which would put him at the time around Mach 30, a number that goes up considerably when he is able to precisely aim at the meteor during its descent at escape velocity. Saitama had casually moved so fast that not even Genos could track him, only his afterimages. And Saitama put more effort into fighting Boros than he ever did against Genos, yet the alien could keep up for most of the battle. I know Mach 30 is laughable compared to NnT, but it's a starting point at the very least for future calcs, yes?

From what I've heard, the anime is also considered canon since it just expands on some scenes, though I can't say for certain this is true since I've yet to read an interview with ONE saying this. That aside, even in the manga, Boros' blows were doing much more damage to his own ship than anything the S class heroes were doing to it and even did more damage than Saitama's moon jump.

The only Serious move Saitama directly used on Garou was Serious Headbutt, which was aimed at Garou's arm, whereas Serious Table Flip was used to flip over the MA base. He may have certainly been putting more effort into his other punches during the fight, but they weren't actually Serious Punches. Boros in turn though took Saitama's Serious Punch head on and still stayed alive for just a little while afterwards. Saitama had to use a Serious move to take down Boros' attack lest a huge deal of collateral damage, while Saitama initially began to use his Serious Series against Garou just to make him take things even more seriously.

Originally posted by danteiscool
Prior to Meliodas' return to full power, at any rate. Unless Ban gets a more permanent power boost than what Snatch or Hunter Festival can provide.

Hmm, a valid point. Very well, how about this: can't remember the exact calc or where it originated from, but during the 'sparring' match between Saitama and Genos, the latter outran his own blast, which would put him at the time around Mach 30, a number that goes up considerably when he is able to precisely aim at the meteor during its descent at escape velocity. Saitama had casually moved so fast that not even Genos could track him, only his afterimages. And Saitama put more effort into fighting Boros than he ever did against Genos, yet the alien could keep up for most of the battle. I know Mach 30 is laughable compared to NnT, but it's a starting point at the very least for future calcs, yes?

From what I've heard, the anime is also considered canon since it just expands on some scenes, though I can't say for certain this is true since I've yet to read an interview with ONE saying this. That aside, even in the manga, Boros' blows were doing much more damage to his own ship than anything the S class heroes were doing to it and even did more damage than Saitama's moon jump.

The only Serious move Saitama directly used on Garou was Serious Headbutt, which was aimed at Garou's arm, whereas Serious Table Flip was used to flip over the MA base. He may have certainly been putting more effort into his other punches during the fight, but they weren't actually Serious Punches. Boros in turn though took Saitama's Serious Punch head on and still stayed alive for just a little while afterwards. Saitama had to use a Serious move to take down Boros' attack lest a huge deal of collateral damage, while Saitama initially began to use his Serious Series against Garou just to make him take things even more seriously.

Mmh... No. Mach 30? Are you kidding? Sonico is hundreds, if not thousands of times faster than that. And Saitama makes him look like molasses rolling of a tree in the winter.

There is no such thing as "also considered canon". The anime is anime canon, which is a secondary source. The manga is manga canon, and is the primary source of said canon. If something happens in the anime that didn't in the manga, it is secondary canon, meaning it is not really canon.

Saitama did NOT hit Boros head on with a serious punch. He used the shockwave of a serious punch to blast through Boros' most powerful attack, which then sent the same shockwave to hit Boros. The force was just strong enough to blow a planet surface level attack away, and still kill Boros, JUST from the air pressure of the punch. Garou took a serious headbutt directly, and kept going.

Again, it was a very outdated calc and this was from the very beginning. Good to know that other speed feats had been calced.

I see... even if by chance the author confirms canonicty? Not saying that he has, but simply a hypothetical.

True that. But despite Saitama's punch striking the beam first, given the sheer range/width/intensity of the air pressure, Boros might as well have been hit by the attack at point blank range. In both manga and anime, you could literally see his entire body take the air pressure head on and he still remained alive long enough to talk with Saitama for a moment. Yes, Garou in his physically strongest/toughest form took the Serious Headbutt and remained alive, but all that proves is that he is physically tougher than Boros is, which isn't necessarily the same as being more powerful than him in every other respect. That also being said, one also has to consider Saitama's mentality in both fights. Against human foes (which he considers Garou to be despite his power ups), he always only fights with the intent to KO or otherwise incapacitate. Against non-humans (Boros included), he always fights with the intent to kill.

On a bit of a related sidenote regarding Garou, just where would you place him (in base form) in power in the NnTverse?