Should there be a limit to the amount of kids you can have?

Originally posted by Newjak
And in the case of accidental pregnancies which is what I think account for most late teen early 20s pregnancies?

You add in the religious stigma around abortions for many in this country and you have a recipe for a lot of unwanted children before the parents are ready to take care of them.

I would also point out in a country where people can work full time jobs but still fall below the poverty line that somehow forcing them to not be able to have children seems kind of shitty.

An accidental pregnancy is one thing. Oh and btw to me an accidental pregnancy is if you use a type of birth control and it fails you. It is not an accident if you willing bang someone and choose not to wear a condom.

Plus to me it's even shittier to let people bring children they can't take care of into this world. Since you know who then foots the bill so these people can continually pop out kids? Us.

Originally posted by Bardock42
If she is a good mother for the children and doesn't neglect or abuse them she should be able to get as many children as she wants, and the children should get government support if they need it, imo.

A good mother wouldn't bring children into the world she can't take care of.

see what i mean. must be nice being a rich white guy.

Originally posted by Raisen
http://federalsafetynet.com/welfare-fraud.html

http://www.cheatsheet.com/personal-finance/whos-on-welfare-9-shocking-stats-about-public-assistance.html/?a=viewall

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

This seems less like welfare abuse and more like a need to make sure the system handling the funds isupdated and redone.

Originally posted by Raisen
i'm wondering how many of these supporters have been on welfare and how many people do they know have been. the abuse is sick. there are stats all over the place with varying results. don't believe the numbers. you need to live this to know

Originally posted by Raisen
pretty much only hispanics have the religious stigma and they only account for 15 percent. you are reaching newjak. you are trying too hard to find excuses

Originally posted by Surtur
So then where is the cut off line? How many children can she have before she stops getting increases? 2? 4?

this world will turn into idiocracy soon enough. it will be "kindness" and pc that leads us there

I think it's a problem even if just 1 person is doing it. That is still them taking away money from someone who might actually deserve it..as opposed to an irresponsible adult expecting the tax payers to clean up their mistakes.

You shouldn't get to continually pop out kids and then continually have your hand out. It just shouldn't work that way.

Originally posted by Newjak
That doesn't showcase widespread fraud. The first article you post even says so. All it says is that funds can have a high error rate. This can range from giving the benefits to the wrong person or underpaying/overpaying some people.

This seems less like welfare abuse and more like a need to make sure the system handling the funds isupdated and redone.

So what you're saying is we need to rely on biased opinions from people whose perception on welfare could be totally different and wrong instead of looking at actual statistical data?

I'm sorry but that religious stigma is not limited to just latinos. There are a number of Caucasian religion demographics that also frown upon abortion.

Let me ask you something Surtur. Why do you think this is a problem if most people don't even abuse the system and the abusers account for so little of the pie that it almost seems like peanuts compared to the rest of our budget?

true. there are a lot of whites that hold that stigma also.

regarding the numbers. everything adds up and the numbers keep increasing.

Originally posted by Surtur
A good mother wouldn't bring children into the world she can't take care of.

Hmm, I don't think that's necessarily true. I think the skillset to be a good parent doesn't necessarily mean that you have a skillset that will be well paid, and I think it is an important good for a society to have well adjusted children growing up, so I don't see much of a problem there.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Hmm, I don't think that's necessarily true. I think the skillset to be a good parent doesn't necessarily mean that you have a skillset that will be well paid, and I think it is an important good for a society to have well adjusted children growing up, so I don't see much of a problem there.

A good mother would be worried about the childs welfare. Doesn't matter if she's super good at telling bed time stories or any of the other shit parents do.

A good mother makes sure she can put food on the table. She doesn't continually have children knowing she can't afford it.

Originally posted by Surtur
An accidental pregnancy is one thing. Oh and btw to me an accidental pregnancy is if you use a type of birth control and it fails you. It is not an accident if you willing bang someone and choose not to wear a condom.

Plus to me it's even shittier to let people bring children they can't take care of into this world. Since you know who then foots the bill so these people can continually pop out kids? Us.

You know most of this is only a problem because minimum wage jobs can not support people you have children.

Originally posted by Surtur
I think it's a problem even if just 1 person is doing it. That is still them taking away money from someone who might actually deserve it..as opposed to an irresponsible adult expecting the tax payers to clean up their mistakes.

You shouldn't get to continually pop out kids and then continually have your hand out. It just shouldn't work that way.

Originally posted by Newjak
Accidental pregnancies to me result primarily from poor sex education along with accidental mishaps like condoms breaking or being defective.

All circles around to the parents doesn't it? Ladies and gentlemen: teach your damn kids about sex, do not expect a school to do it.

I think that is too simplistic of a view to have on complex scenarios. The world is never going to perfect. What is more important to you. Having a system that legitmately helps the people it needs with little abuse or a system that doesn't tolerate any abuse but hurts a huge portion of people for things that may have resulted from an accident beyond their control? Which can lead to even further generations of impoverished and desperate people.

But this logic is faulty because if we simply made it so we didn't give increases in money to people who have kids on welfare..why does that hurt the people who need legitimate help? Since you see if you are on welfare and decide to have a kid? That is a problem YOU created, that's not someone who needs legit help. That is someone who needs to be sat down and explained to them they shouldn't be doing what they are doing unless they can afford it.

So if we enacted that..explain to me how anyone who legitimately needs welfare would suffer?

Originally posted by Surtur
All circles around to the parents doesn't it? Ladies and gentlemen: teach your damn kids about sex, do not expect a school to do it.

But this logic is faulty because if we simply made it so we didn't give increases in money to people who have kids on welfare..why does that hurt the people who need legitimate help? Since you see if you are on welfare and decide to have a kid? That is a problem YOU created.

I actually think having a proper sec ed class is important.

Because the people with kids and the kids themselves legitimately need that help. Also not all circumstances fall under the control of the person with the kids. Heck most people don't just decide to have kids because they are poor. Most children are legitimately accidents for young parents. Also there are circumstances where people have already had kids while they could afford it but outside circumstances have changed their economic status. For instance losing a job, being laid off, a death in the family.

Also I would ask who do you believe legitimately deserves help?

Schools could do a much better job of sex ed as well though. Especially in the US, where some teach the unrealistic "abstinence only" methods.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Schools could do a much better job of sex ed as well though. Especially in the US, where some teach the unrealistic "abstinence only" methods.

Originally posted by Newjak
Oh I agree with this completely.

so blame everyone else except the adults who bear children they cannot support. this is treating grown people like they are children. in a way, this is treating them like they are inferior.

Of course schools could be better, but then so could parents. Do not expect schools to parent your children. If you do you shouldn't be a parent. With this day and age, sex education is just a google search away for a parent. There is little to no excuse.

As for people who deserve help? Simple: anyone who isn't actively behaving in a way that makes your situation worse. So for example if you are on welfare because you got laid off, alright. But then if you begin spending part of the welfare money on drugs..well, most jobs drug test and you aren't ever likely to get a job while on drugs. So such a person no longer deserves help.

Or like this situation: if you know you are already in bad shape and can't afford to live then do not have a child. Use protection when you bone and if you don't use protection you surely shouldn't be expecting to get even more money because you are an utterly irresponsible adult. It's not fair to all the people who are on welfare that act responsible and don't act like they should continually be given hand outs.

Just reminds me of the woman with 15 kids living in a hotel room screaming "someone got to take care of my kids". Yeah lady, that "someone" is you.

Plus if we are going to talk about taking this to it's extremes think about what Bardock said. A woman should be able to pop out as many children as she wants even if she can't take care of them as long as she is a "good" mother. There is no accountability, no responsibility, just doing whatever you want and expecting others to foot the bill.

So under that situation you could literally have 12-15 kids while on welfare and continually get increases.

Originally posted by Surtur
Of course schools could be better, but then so could parents. Do not expect schools to parent your children. If you do you shouldn't be a parent. With this day and age, sex education is just a google search away for a parent. There is little to no excuse.

As for people who deserve help? Simple: anyone who isn't actively behaving in a way that makes your situation worse. So for example if you are on welfare because you got laid off, alright. But then if you begin spending part of the welfare money on drugs..well, most jobs drug test and you aren't ever likely to get a job while on drugs. So such a person no longer deserves help.

Or like this situation: if you know you are already in bad shape and can't afford to live then do not have a child. Use protection when you bone and if you don't use protection you surely shouldn't be expecting to get even more money because you are an utterly irresponsible adult. It's not fair to all the people who are on welfare that act responsible and don't act like they should continually be given hand outs.

Just reminds me of the woman with 15 kids living in a hotel room "someone got to take care of my kids". Yeah lady, that "someone" is you.

Anyways so it seems more like you're upset with people that are already on welfare and pop out another child while on benefits. I honestly think that is an absurdly low amount of people actually. Also like I said most people that go on benefits are off of it with in 5 years. Of course new people get on it as well so it always seems like the same amount of people are on welfare.

To me the biggest problem is that people working full time job schedules still can not afford to take care of a child or two.

Originally posted by Surtur
Plus if we are going to talk about taking this to it's extremes think about what Bardock said. A woman should be able to pop out as many children as she wants even if she can't take care of them as long as she is a "good" mother. There is no accountability, no responsibility, just doing whatever you want and expecting others to foot the bill.

So under that situation you could literally have 12-15 kids while on welfare and continually get increases.