Ahsoka Tano & Savage Opress vs Darth Malgus & Ven Zallow

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Ahsoka ran from Maul likely during the Clone Wars when she was a teenager, not in her prime, and she was fighting evenly with Maul and only "ran away" as directed by Kanan, not because she was losing. Ahsoka at the start of her fight with Vader kicked him in the head and Force pushed him a good distance, and contrary to popular belief, she wasn't getting butt-****ed by Vader in the second part of the fight. What opponent has Malgus contended with that's on Vader's level as well as Ahsoka did? Also lmao @ "losing to Vader" being a strike against Ahsoka to prove Malgus's superiority.

Are you implying that Malgus would have to fight a Vader level opponent to be more impressive than Ahsoka?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You mean falls Ahsoka did when she was a child? And randoms in TOR are dropping heavier objects than trams, the HoT and the Barsen'thor are both stated to be more powerful than her, have basically nothing comparable to a novel feat, and neither could hold a candle to Vader. Let's be real here.

Malgus loses to sub-Maul opponents, so I somehow doubt he can take on Vader or Maul. Lightning can be blocked with a lightsaber, the fact that Leneer can't doesn't mean no one can unless they can throw 7 trams as opposed to 6, lel.

He was beaten by a team of unknown numbers or members nothing suggests a single one beat them. This has been brought to your attention scores of times and you've never refuted it nothing indicates he was soloed lmao

Again show me canonical evidence that he was beaten by a single protag and not a team as was mentioned and you have a case

Malgus is also a better duelist than any of he protags barring the Hero so no shit they'd lose against Vader, I never claimed he'd win against either Maul or Vader only that his physicals /greater force feats offer him less difficulties than Ahsoka in a duel.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Are you implying that Malgus would have to fight a Vader level opponent to be more impressive than Ahsoka?

@Carthage: Barring the Hero? Why so?

Originally posted by carthage
He was beaten by a team of unknown numbers or members nothing suggests a single one beat them. This has been brought to your attention scores of times and you've never refuted it nothing indicates he was soloed lmao

Again show me canonical evidence that he was beaten by a single protag and not a team as was mentioned and you have a case

Malgus is also a better duelist than any of he protags barring the Hero so no shit they'd lose against Vader, I never claimed he'd win against either Maul or Vader only that his physicals offer him less difficulties than Ahsoka in a duel.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Ahsoka ran from Maul likely during the Clone Wars when she was a teenager, not in her prime, and she was fighting evenly with Maul and only "ran away" as directed by Kanan, not because she was losing. Ahsoka at the start of her fight with Vader kicked him in the head and Force pushed him a good distance, and contrary to popular belief, she wasn't getting butt-****ed by Vader in the second part of the fight. What opponent has Malgus contended with that's on Vader's level as well as Ahsoka did? Also lmao @ "losing to Vader" being a strike against Ahsoka to prove Malgus's superiority.

She landed one blow on Vader which did nothing and a force push of no consequence, none of that is beyond what Malgus is capable of. When Vader got serious he drove her back the entire time and blasted her off the pyramid and temporarily koed her. She is close to either but she has been shown to be clearly inferior to them.

Show me anything that suggests she can withstand Malgus's lightning or getting blasted or dominated with telekinesis. Malgus doesn't fight like Vader and is more prone to abusing his power in duels, even when Ahsoka presses him in a duel all it takes is an outburst of his telekinesis or lightning and she's done.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The fact that a team of unknowns defeats Malgus doesn't exactly disprove the fact that it's completely possible for him to have lost solo. You can keep denying it all you want with quotes that don't match what's actually in game, but the fact is not only is it possible, it's supported, that Malgus can die one on one.

Show evidence he wasn't. I've already provided evidence it's possible, something that's actually in game, a game with no canon whatsoever, and you reply with, "This thing from the internet says."

His amazing physicals didn't seem to come into play when it counted, but I'm sure it'll save him here.

So again nothing indicates he was soloed when multiple quotes indicate a team took him down? Ok that's all you had to say. Spare me a longer post next time please

Originally posted by carthage
So again nothing indicates he was soloed when multiple quotes indicate a team took him down? Ok that's all you had to say. Spare me a longer post next time please

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He could fight anyone notable that doesn't completely become irrelevant later. Hell, he could start with someone HoT level and win for starters.

I forgot, why does being solo'd by the hero make Malgus weak?

It doesn't make Malgus weak at all. It makes him in range with Ahsoka, which was the point. But Carthage is putting her below one-off Leneer, so there's really no point in even debating that.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yeah, there aren't multiple sources supporting that. I've seen a source and it's nebulous, but while you're calling the kettle black, show me the in game quote that says Malgus faced a team, because not only are you ignoring several bits of dialogue that state he can be solo'd to help your internet debate, you're ignoring the fact that absolutely nothing is actually crystal about the confrontation with Malgus besides the fact that the player, any player, was there. You don't get to set anything in stone to support your random online bitching anymore than I do, so until TOR has a canon, which it absolutely never will, you'll have to acknowledge all possibilities.

It's a nebulous point but you still bring it up for the sake of lowballing? Again please spare me the horseshit regarding in game options, it said it a team of either the Empires best or Republics. If it's a contentious issue which you can't substantiate then it's best to leave it alone now, right?

Originally posted by carthage
She landed one blow on Vader which did nothing and a force push of no consequence, none of that is beyond what Malgus is capable of. When Vader got serious he drove her back the entire time and blasted her off the pyramid and temporarily koed her. She is close to either but she has been shown to be clearly inferior to them.

"When Vader got serious"

>implying he wasn't serious at the start

Ahsoka was contending with Vader in skill and he was driving her back due to his size and strength, but she was still holding out which is very impressive. Malgus may be stronger than Ahsoka but I doubt he's stronger than Vader, and he surely isn't as skilled as Vader. Vader's TK winning the fight (which is superior to Malgus's) is simply because of Ahsoka's circumstantial positioning at the edge of the temple, allowing a BFR.

Originally posted by carthage
Show me anything that suggests she can withstand Malgus's lightning or getting blasted or dominated with telekinesis. Malgus doesn't fight like Vader and is more prone to abusing his power in duels, even when Ahsoka presses him in a duel all it takes is an outburst of his telekinesis or lightning and she's done.

Carthage is right on this one Freshest

No, he isn't.

Originally posted by carthage
It's a nebulous point but you still bring it up for the sake of lowballing? Again please spare me the horseshit regarding in game options, it said it a team of either the Empires best or Republics.

If it's a contentious issue which you can't substantiate then it's best to leave it alone now, right?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No, he isn't.

No, it is not. Like nowhere besides a random source on the holonet dev's will never confirm.

You don't support your points, but I can't substantiate, despite my actually using the game you refuse to acknowledge, mine?

I have no interest in going back as forth when there is no clear indication who or how many beat him. All I'm asking for is an actual quote who beat him whether or a group if he was soloed, not in game options, not possibilities, but actual confirmation. If it's the Hero (as seeming increasingly the case) then I'll happily concede the point. I never placed Ahsoka below Leneer, either. Again do you have or can you or anyone point to any quote that says who he was definitively beaten by? Really that's all I'm asking for and will happily drop the issue when or if anything can be shown either way, until then it's a moot point and shouldn't be used to lowball him.

Just up top you started bitching about Leneer being superior to Ahsoka because she threw trians and fells from really high.

And I already stated the only thing that is said is that the player was there when Malgus died, aside from one seen where the player talks about how they were able to defeat him alone. Which is the point. The game never confirms or deny anything because BioWare hates setting up set outcomes. That does not change the fact that it is very much possible for Malgus to be outright killed by the player alone. You can't use the lack of direct confirmation anymore than I can, and dialogue is as canon as it gets with this game. Either way, I'm done talking in circles with you. You obviously don't care to defend your points with anything the game itself supports, which is where the story actually happens.

Mostly torn. I can see Malgus tanking Ahsoka for a while, I'd consider them on similar levels, but Malgus is much more prone to using his Force powers in combat, which I don't see Ahsoka defending against in close quarters. She can definitely handle his Force onslaughts as long as he's not enraged, but if she lands a non-lethal blow then, as is typical with Malgus, he'd probably grow enraged and lash out with TK and overwhelm her. Malgus would win more likely than not unless Ahsoka is capable, chances being she probably is given her speed advantage, of landing a lethal blow or at least severely weakening him to the point that when he lashed out in rage it doesn't overwhelm her, and she can take him down.

As far as Savage vs Ven goes, Ven would probably fall short and lose in a good duel as long as Savage doesn't abuse his TK, otherwise I see him going down considerably quickly.

All-in-all I'm siding with team 1 for majority, but an enraged Malgus could surely tip the scales if Ahsoka gets a small advantage early on.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
[B]Just up top you started bitching about Leneer being superior to Ahsoka because she threw trians and fells from really high.

Leneer's got better force feats, and that's really it. Again you putting words in my mouth when I already said Ahsoka would win against Leneer Newguy's thread isn't helping your case. Malgus sent Leneer flying with TK, and blasted through her force shield with lightning. Ahsoka by feats isn't faring any better

And I already stated the only thing that is said is that the player was there when Malgus died, aside from one seen where the player talks about how they were able to defeat him alone. Which is the point. The game never confirms or deny anything because BioWare hates setting up set outcomes. That does not change the fact that it is very much possible for Malgus to be outright killed by the player alone. You can't use the lack of direct confirmation anymore than I can, and dialogue is as canon as it gets with this game. Either way, I'm done talking in circles with you. You obviously don't care to defend your points with anything the game itself supports, which is where the story actually happens.

Got it. Not sure how I can "Defend" my points when you're the one that claimed he can be soled and never actually showed any definitive source. Case closed for now though

Her blow against Vader is a testament to her incredible speed and martial skill, and her Force push against Vader demonstrates that she's capable of landing telekinetic strikes against extremely powerful opponents, especially one that is decidedly above Malgus in Force power and telekinetic Force defenses

A single force push won't change the outcome of a fight, when a force user utilizes abilities not accessed by another. Also Vader never employed his force abilities in which was largely a lightsaber duel, had he he would've ended it outright as he did when she was Ko'ed by him simply pushing her before she came and rescued Ezra/Kanan. Malgus employs lightning and angry telekinetic outbursts more frequently than Vader, and Ahsoka has nothing to suggest in the force she can defend against them:

[quote[Malgus bounced up from the somersault and loosed a telekinetic blast that lifted Aryn from her feet and blew her across the hangar.[/quote]
-Deceived

When the crowd did not respond to his demand, he slammed a fist into his palm and let anger-fueled power explode outward from his body. Screams sounded as the blast shoved everything away from him in all directions.

Bodies flew backward, slammed into one another, into the walls, against and through windows. The transport he’d rode on lurched from the blast. The doors of the medical facility flew from their mounts and crashed to the ground.

That force wave also lurched a transport as well mid-flight, and that was just a casual outburst. Given the frequency Malgus utilizes lightning/telekinesis in battle she's going to get overwhelmed simply by his force abilities

(I'm pretty sure tanking the explosion at the Sith Temple is a better defensive feat in the Force than anything Malgus has done?). Seeing as how she TK'd Vader, she could TK Malgus. I'd love to hear why Malgus can all of a sudden replicate what Ahsoka did though, that'd be interesting.

How or where is it stated she used the force to survive the blast? Also I already know Vader is capable of withstanding a similar explosion, he survived the explosion of Cymoon 1 with barrier. What proof do you have Ahsoka used barrier and wasn't protected by Vader or something? Of course she can simply push Malgus, it won't really affect him seeing as he's tanked missiles, Force lightning, and being blasted into a mountainside- but if it makes you feel better she can push him.

Ahsoka has no experience with lightning, and even if she gets her lightsabers up she lacks the physical strength or showings of barrier to suggest Malgus's lightning doesn't overpower her defenses. Aryn Leneer who can hurl 6 car trams with a gesture, utilize the force to slow a descent from tens of thousands of feet was overpowered by Malgus's lightning:

As Aryn prepared to leap at Malgus, he held forth a hand, almost casually, and lightning sizzled through the space between them. Aryn interposed her lightsabers, but the power in the lightning exceeded anything she had felt from Malgus before. It blasted through her defenses and both lightsabers flew from her hands. The lightning seized her, lifted her up, and threw her from the top of the shuttle.

As she flew toward the deck, she smelled burning flesh, heard screaming, realized that it was her flesh, her screams. She hit the ground hard and her head bounced off the ground. Sparks erupted in her brain, pain, and everything went dark.

He also overpowered the barriers of the Jedi master that collapsed burnt out buildings on him:

At 10 meters, Malgus extended his free hand and loosed veins of blue Force lightning. They struck the charging Jedi: swept through his defenses, swirled around him, and began to burn flesh.

Shouting with pain, the Jedi leaned forward into the lightning - teeth bare, blue blades held before him - and staggered toward Malgus. Despite his burns, he came onward. One step, another, another, but he was failing, wilting in the heat of the lightning. Malgus channeled more power and the Jedi fell to his knees, screaming. The lightning spiraled around the Zabrak, blasting dark holes in his body.

-The Third Lesson

That's just a few examples of his lightning, he also downed whatever respective members/member of the strike team/individual attacked him, and these are all men/force users who regularly experience Sith in combat. His force abilities are beyond hers, and the regularity which he employs them in combat are at odds with what was largely a lightsaber duel with Vader.

Ahsoka was contending with Vader in skill and he was driving her back due to his size and strength, but she was still holding out which is very impressive. Malgus may be stronger than Ahsoka but I doubt he's stronger than Vader, and he surely isn't as skilled as Vader. Vader's TK winning the fight (which is superior to Malgus's) is simply because of Ahsoka's circumstantial positioning at the edge of the temple, allowing a BFR.

Canon Vader at this point really isn't that different from Malgus in strength, and Ahsoka was very clearly inferior to either Maul or Vader seeing as Vader was driving her back and ILS's picture states outright that she was one of the weaker Jedi. Malgus is just as large as Vader and his striking will have much the same effect as Vader's was against her, he was striking hard enough for Aryn's arms to quiver, and while enraged literally drove her to her knees

Malgus’s strength drove her to her knees.

Source: Deceived

He has more than enough physical strength to drive her back, and if he lands a physical strike on her she's going to end up with broken ribs/arms. Malgus can casually send Zallow flying 10 meters with a kick, shatter a marble table with his fists, and shatter stone columns with his strikes. He's going to drive her back similarly to Vader, along with blasting her with telekinesis/lightning.

That's nice. Ahsoka legitimately contending with a more powerful opponent in Vader, landing telekinetic strikes against him, clearly is evidence enough that she wouldn't be out of her league against Malgus in the Force. She's physically strong enough and powerful enough in the Force to not get raped by Malgus's lightning, and she's fast and skilled enough to press Malgus in a duel and find openings to exploit.

She held her own for the first half of the fight, and then Vader's greater physicality drove her into retreat on the templeside. As mentioned Malgus is the same size as Vader, and has comparable strength to replicate Vader's showings in outright beating her lightsabers down. She has no experience with lightning to speak of, and nothing about her suggests she'd fare any different than Aryn if his lightning connected with her blades or if he blasted her with TK. Malgus regularly employs force abuse in his fights, and even if Ahsoka finds an opening Malgus has durability feats to suggest he can withstand her blows (He outright thrives off of pain/withstood Aryn penetrating his armor). He'd beat her guard down similar to Vader, and that's if she can survive a force attack she's never encountered or isn't ragdolled/sent flying

Team 2 solidly