Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Damn! You are telling me that I don't maintain track of my arguments?My original response:
was intended for your original statement:
In my original post; I have pointed out a fact that Vitiate was immensely powerful during the era of Revan. To lend credibility to this assertion, I provided some reasons (additional facts) below it. No rocket-science here.
However, your response was to break my argument into different bits and respond to each bit separately; unfortunately, you lost track of my argument in this manner and now you are accusing me of sticking to adjectives and not following my own argument?
My advice to you is that you should read the entire response first and then respond to it. In this manner, you can avoid confusion.
What the f*ck are you talking about? Yes, I broke your argument into segments, as is typical - the specific segment you were quoting was "What is it with you and vague, meaningless adjectives? You took the "Revan is the heart of the Force!" wanker persona and became its living meme.". Your reply not only fails to grasp what I was critiquing you on, but literally does exactly it!
But quibbling aside, the point that I've been trying to get to your skull is that you prove absolutely nothing by pointing out that some sources call Vitiate "immensely powerful" or "nearly unbeatable" or "super f*cking badass". These are not meaningful statements beyond vaguely establishing that he's substantially stronger than your average Sith Lord, which could put him anywhere from Ventress to Palpatine. You need to give more detailed and quantitative analysis than that.
Again! What kind of 'preparation' was involved in those mysterious developments? Did Vitiate hire some Force-users to use Battle Meditation to fuel his power during those moments? You need to prove these assertions, if you are making them in the first place (basic debating rule, my friend).Look at this showing: https://i.imgur.com/15dEtT9.webm
Doesn't it tells you something?
Those Knights of Zakuul had successfully cornered the Outlander and his allies including powerful Lana Beniko and Senya; those Knights might have slaughtered the entire group but Valkorion intervened.
Characters having some feats are not necessarily special. Some are given more attention then the others for storytelling purpose because developers do not have unlimited time and resources at their disposal to explore each and every character out there. Also, read my analogy before:
ANALOGY: Jedi Master Orgus Din had impressive Force abilities and considerable experience in combat but he eventually met his match in Darth Angral. The latter Sith wasn't a frontline warrior and doesn't have (individualistic) showings on par with the Jedi Master in question but we witness him killing Din on-screen.
My point is that you have to focus on more then some feats to assess the power of a character. Every bit of information/assessing tactic is useful such as accolades, power-scaling, feats and others.
Your consistently arrogant language actually makes me cringe, like watching those horrible American Idol hopefuls who don't realize how much they suck. The observation that matters is that Vitiate NEVER uses that technique against any of the strike teams he faces, but instead only against dark councils when he knows they're coming to his own fortress, and conveniently off-screen. Whether it's because he can't, needs prep, or is just an idiot, I don't care - it means that you have no grounds to just assert that he's going to use them against X, Y, or Z opponents because you say so.
<snip Force drain>
Your distinction between willing and unwilling hosts is irrelevant; we're comparing Palpatine to Revan, not Valkorion. Revan has not demonstrated the ability to manipulate his environment on a planetary scale that Palpatine (or Valkorion) has, nor has he ever dominated large groups of opponents in close quarters simultaneously to the extent that Palpatine dominated the B-team or even the 50 stormtroopers sent against him, nor has he shown the same prowess in telekinesis, lightning, accolades or anything really.
All of your points thus far have been purely defensive; you haven't given us anything to put Revan on Palpatine's level, except for claiming that he's "immensely powerful".
Palpatine is a Sith; lying and manipulating others is part of his nature.
...
He was talking to himself. Palpatine is actually surprisingly realistic in assessing his own abilities; he recognizes Plagueis, Yoda, Talzin and Luke as realistic threats and understands that pre-injuries Vader could surpass him in power. There's no indication that he is delusional about his abilities in telekinesis.
Either way, he's clearly vastly more powerful than Vader or Starkiller, both of whom can redirect falling star destroyers and destroy frigates with the Force. Revan has done absolutely nothing to put himself on Palpatine's level.
Anyways, I do not doubt Palpatine's ability to pull it off but I maintain my point-of-view that it would take more then a mere thought. Affecting the external environment with telekinetic powers is different from affecting the external environment with some other power. Palpatine may find it much easier to destroy a building with a Force Storm then with his telekinetic powers.
Sure, but it still puts him far above Revan, which is the point.
Palpatine > Revan (point-of-view) is not at dispute here. However, underestimating Revan is not wise either.
I'm not underestimating him, I'm just pointing out that he is no match for the Emperor, which is clearly true given that Palpatine outstrips him in every meaningful category by literally orders of magnitude in terms of what he has been able to do.
I'd say that Revan will challenge Palpatine as much as Yoda could, if not better.
😆 ROFLAMO!
You have yet to produce a single feat that puts Revan within even an order of magnitude of ability in telekinesis, speed, dueling, lightning, or anything, really. Trying to put him on Yoda's level is a laughable leap you made to make sure Revan's dick is hard and juicy during your next session.
Revan have his own set of talents that grant him advantage in combat situations such as his mindset, ability to wield both Light and Dark Sides, formidable defensive abilities and esoteric powers such as Teleportation.
He doesn't have teleportation as of the novel, and Palpatine also studied the Force "in all its guises", and mastered "nearly every known power". Regardless, even if Revan did have some sort of knowledge advantage over perhaps the most learned Force user in galactic history, it matters very little when the disparity in raw power is so vast.
Revan doesn't needs to match Palpatine pound-for-pound in the context of feats to challenge him.
He needs to come within an order of magnitude in something, and you have provided nothing. He isn't as powerful, he isn't as fast, he isn't as learned, he certainly doesn't have the same skills with a blade. The only area where I would give Revan the potential edge is in tactical acumen, and even that has primarily been demonstrated in controlling large fleets and armies, and not in one vs. one combat.
One-shotting is not the right choice of term here! Blitzing is. A lightsaber would kill any humaniod with a single well-executed hit.And those Jedi Masters weren't peers of Revan in raw power; they were renowned for their dueling skills, not their strength in the Force.
The point is that it's another feat that Revan cannot match.
Mace Windu was a legitimate powerhouse however and he handled Palpatine just fine.
Actually the novel makes it clear that Windu would've died really quickly had he not sunk into vaapad. And Windu at base is comparable to or greater than Dooku, one of the most impressive duelists to ever live. What exactly has Revan done with a blade that makes you think he's on Sidious's level again?
One-shotting a powerful member of the Dark Council is definitely Palpatine-tier showing.
Um...no?
Where is your evidence that Nyriss was particularly powerful compared to other dark council members? Because those three Jedi that Palpatine owned were substantially stronger than your average council member given their accolades. Don't forget about Maul and Oppress, who Palpatine easily ragdolled and could've subsequently killed easily - both of them are far superior to "typical" council members like Ki-adi Mundi. Even the likes of Obi Wan can be dispatched quickly by Dooku, let alone Palpatine.
Palpatine also was dominating and would've easily killed pre-vaapad Windu, who is obviously far stronger than Nyriss. So no, killing someone like Nyriss isn't very impressive just because she's on the council.
BTW, it's not even clear that Revan could just one-shot Nyriss in a fair fight; he caught her charged attack and threw it back at her.