Originally posted by Beniboybling
Dooku was rendered helpless by Mother Talzin's drain, so naw, she also has several other abilities she could undermine him with.
Talzin is stupidly stronger than Traya, or Nihilus for that matter.
I see no reason to believe that any of these characters are powerful enough to ragdoll Dooku or overpower his defenses before Tyranus forces a saber duel and swiftly dispatches them.
Your point being? Fact remains he was rendered utterly helpless by her attack, as opposed to having some estoric defense you claim he possesses overwhelmed. An assumption that is tenous at best considering Darth Traya, who was privy to an academy of Sith knowledge on Malachor, and herself a master of the power, claimed to have no defense against it.
And lmao at Dooku "swiftly dispatching" Traya in a lightsaber duel. Not when she is a master of Echani martial arts, battle precognition, shatterpoint and kinetic sabers combat.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Your point being?
Point being that Dooku not being able to defend against Talzin's drain does not imply that he can't defend against Traya's? If this were such an insta-kill maneuver, Sidious would've just one-shotted Yoda with it.
Traya lost to Meetra Surik, who got trashed with Scourge by Nyriss, who was one-shotted by Revan. That powerscaling makes it tough to put her on Dooku's level.
And now your assuming that Darth Sidious is a master of this power and that Yoda has no defense against it? And who-ever said anything about it being a "insta-kill" maneuver? Goodness, let's refrain from getting any more bogged down in rather baseless speculation.
Regardless I've already explained why your reasoning is flawed twofold, please respond to the entirety of my post or I'll assume a concession. 🙂
And that's assuming continuity between KOTOR Meetra and Drew's Meetra, where clearly none exists.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
And now your assuming that Darth Sidious is a master of this power
He employs it on a planetary scale (Byss).
and that Yoda has no defense against it?
😐 That's what you're assuming with a guy who obsessively studied the Sith arts, had access to both the restricted sections of the Jedi Archives and the teachings of the most powerful sith lord in galactic history, and designed a device that drains Force energies from people.
And who-ever said anything about it being a "insta-kill" maneuver? Goodness, let's refrain from getting any more bogged down in rather baseless speculation.
You're quibbling over semantics - the question here is whether Force drain would affect Dooku sufficiently for him to lose. There's no reason to believe that it is, given that he outclasses Traya in every relevant category by multiple orders of magnitude.
Regardless I've already explained why your reasoning is flawed twofold, please respond to the entirety of my post or I'll assume a concession. 🙂
Your editing your post ex-post facto and trying to mislead me into thinking otherwise aside, Traya is a pathological liar who has access to only a fraction of the resources or sheer chronological time that Dooku does. Anakin had a defense against drain which he learned in like a few days. The notion that Dooku never bothered to study it is lolworthy.
And that's assuming continuity between KOTOR Meetra and Drew's Meetra, where clearly none exists.
They're the same character residing in the same universe with a common timeline. Inconsistencies in showings (you know, like Yoda struggling to lift a pillar...) are resolved by more competent analysis via rationalizations and models, not just arbitrarily creating parallel universes or whatever you're trying to propose. That you think there's "clearly" no continuity between them is really bizarre.
Traya loses to the Exile, who gets trashed by Nyriss. Dooku is described as the greatest Jedi the Order had produced in its golden age, one of the best in its 25,000 year old history, and "an even greater sith lord". Traya is weaker than Revan Scourge, who is considered unremarkable in the sith empire and fears the dark council. They exist on entirely separate planes of power.
Originally posted by The EllimistRight, the drain employed by Traya and her disciples is implied to be unique however.
He employs it on a planetary scale (Byss).
😐 That's what you're assuming with a guy who obsessively studied the Sith arts, had access to both the restricted sections of the Jedi Archives and the teachings of the most powerful sith lord in galactic history, and designed a device that drains Force energies from people.Because when drain was used against him, he failed to even attempt a defense. 😬
You're quibbling over semantics - the question here is whether Force drain would affect Dooku sufficiently for him to lose. There's no reason to believe that it is, given that he outclasses Traya in every relevant category by multiple orders of magnitude.Considering she was able to drain three powerful Jedi Masters at once with this ability, I'd say it stands to reason it could do potentially crippling injury yes.
And the only element Dooku really outclasses Traya in is sheer talent with a lightsaber, in terms of raw power and estoreic mastery Traya has the advantage, as well as having a great amount of combat applicable techniques at her disposal.
Your editing your post ex-post facto and trying to mislead me into thinking otherwise aside, Traya is a pathological liar who has access to only a fraction of the resources or sheer chronological time that Dooku does.Lel, I believe that's allowed, its clearly displayed beneath the post whether its been edited or not.
Anyway, the pathological liar argument is cancer and demonstrates an utter lack of understanding of the term. Please provide actual basis for dismissing an admittance of her own weakness lmao. And considering it was from the knowledge housed within the Trayus Academy that she learned this power, it stands to reason what Traya possesses is far more relevant that anything Dooku studied.
Anakin had a defense against drain which he learned in like a few days. The notion that Dooku never bothered to study it is lolworthy.Under the tutelage of the spirit of Ulic-Qel Droma? Any proof Dooku communed with him as Anakin did?
They're the same character residing in the same universe with a common timeline. Inconsistencies in showings (you know, like Yoda struggling to lift a pillar...) are resolved by more competent analysis via rationalizations and models, not just arbitrarily creating parallel universes or whatever you're trying to propose. That you think there's "clearly" no continuity between them is really bizarre.My proposal is that Drew wasn't portraying Meetra as the Force powerhouse she is depicted as in KOTOR II, but rather in a manner that suited the purposes of his story, considering he admits to not having even played the game, and considering its frankly irrational to assume Meetra would go from defeating a giant storm beast, single-handedly slaying an academy of Sith, defeating Sion three times in succession and then going on to defeat Traya at the heart of her power, all while suffering under the crushing effects of a dark side nexus, to getting her shit-pushed in by Nyriss.
On the other hand your supposed accepted model isn't really accepted, abilities depicted in OCW for example are regularly dismissed as an inaccurate portrayals of characters, and officials have Lucasfilm have even gone as far as to state that some sources are less accurate in depictions of a character than others.
And though we could construct (and people have constructed) some contrived reasoning for why Drew's Meetra is so compartively weak, but it makes no difference, it's an outlier, and I'd rather save time and call a spade a spade i.e. plot induced stupidity and general ignorance of a character's capabilities.
Traya loses to the Exile, who gets trashed by Nyriss. Dooku is described as the greatest Jedi the Order had produced in its golden age, one of the best in its 25,000 year old history, and "an even greater sith lord". Traya is weaker than Revan Scourge, who is considered unremarkable in the sith empire and fears the dark council. They exist on entirely separate planes of power.And yet Traya has largely superior showings to Dooku... mmm so I guess that makes Dooku sub-Scourge level. 🙂