Eh, maybe on par, after all.
I really don't rate Ragnos highly. He has nothing to deserve that; all he has is his "reputation" and completely unknown accomplishments. Tulak's accomplishments are largely unknown too, but what we know is enough to know he is pretty damn high (but I still would like not to rate him).
All Ragnos has going for him is being bossy and showing up as a spirit and acting all like "HURR DURR RESPECT MAH AUTHORITY" like a classical pathetic fat mafia boss lmao. Sure, he is respected, but how can one differentiate it from the respect to the guy who just happens to be the most experienced, perhaps the most charismatic, the greatest leader, the greatest manipulator, the greatest revolutionist, who knows?
We like to assume that because Sith respect power, Ragnos being respected by them must automatically mean he is powerful. But would a Sith also respect someone for power he had, while now he has none of it (since, ya know, he's dead)? It's all fairly ambiguous and requires lot of assumptions. I dislike the idea of instant assumption that Sith respect only power and they will never respect being not wielding the supreme power. Well, spirit definitely doesn't wield one, so going by that logic there's no reason to respect Ragnos anymore since he's dead and for many Sith dead people no longer matter in the slightest (look at Bane).
Ragnos's accomplishments don't mean much, since we don't know anything about his rivals, about his times, about anything. He was great, he was at the top, but reasons could be many. Power definitely too, but how much? We can't say, cause we don't know anything. We don't know anything about his times, his rivals, his endeavors.
Ragnos beating up his beast daily is honestly the same as crediting my grandpa as being more formidable physically than his huge dog since he beat him pretty roughly when the dog tried to attack my uncle lmfao.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
The Essential Atlas explicitly states that a reverence for the dead in general was a foundation of ancient Sith culture.
Even helps my case more, to be honest, thanks. It implies it has even more that Ragnos's ambigous "respect" has more to do with general reputation, culture and accomplishments, than instantly "if he is so respected he must have been mad powerful".
Ragnos was implied to be able to defeat Naga Sadow as a weakened spirit, though:"I am vindicated! The great Dark Lord has come to crush you for your sacrilege, Naga Sadow."
-Ludo Kressh
Well, that one is uncertain as Ludo's opinion, as Ragnos obviously didn't appear for that, but it helps definitely 👆 Might actually serve to elevate him at least around Ajunta/Remulus.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
The Essential Atlas explicitly states that a reverence for the dead in general was a foundation of ancient Sith culture.
Only problem was that Kressh was practically worshipping Ragnos as more than just a member of the dead, lol. I mean, you could argue it for Sadow just bowing, but Kressh getting all fanatic about it seems like something else entirely.
Bump. Here's my revised list.
1. Vitiate
2. Exar Kun
3. Marka Ragnos
4. Freedon Nadd
5. Ajunta Pall
6. Naga Sadow/Karness Muur/Tulak Hord?
7. Ludo Kressh
Also, does this suggest that Sadow/Kressh were > GHW Vitiate?
At the gravesite, the two strongest Sith opponents confronted each other: Naga Sadow, eager to expand Sith powers; and his rival Ludo Kressh, content with the existing borders and loath to risk a folly that could potentially cost them everything.-- The New Essential Chronology
@Ell - Read the last part of my post above. Thoughts?
Also, Maul isn't powerful enough to sustain his life for six centuries, create massive solar flares that swallow 215m ships quickly and easily, and form nexuses with his death that, more than a millennium later, can drive powerful Jedi half-insane.
Originally posted by SunRazer
@Ell - Read the last part of my post above. Thoughts?Also, Maul isn't powerful enough to sustain his life for six centuries, create massive solar flares that swallow 215m ships quickly and easily, and form nexuses with his death that, more than a millennium later, can drive powerful Jedi half-insane.
Yeah, I mean we know that this was before Vitiate's character creation, but in the absence of any contradicting evidence I'd take it.
Of those feats, only the death nexus thing is potentially important (source?), but even then we don't see that from canonically superior sith. And Sadow is likely stronger in the Force than Maul - or at least more familiar wih sorcery. Doesn't mean he wins in a fight.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah, I mean we know that this was before Vitiate's character creation, but in the absence of any contradicting evidence I'd take it.
Sources don't have a statute of limitations or expiry dates. For the sake of continuity, everything released is expected to obey all canonical material beforehand. Otherwise, it's known as a retcon.
Of those feats, only the death nexus thing is potentially important (source?), but even then we don't see that from canonically superior sith. And Sadow is likely stronger in the Force than Maul - or at least more familiar wih sorcery. Doesn't mean he wins in a fight.
Can you really imagine Maul creating giant solar flares, even with sorcery apparatus?
The source is Timeline 7: Peace for the Republic? and it's on my Sadow RT if you care to Google that.
And we're not discussing fights here, only who's more powerful. Also, which canonically superior Sith don't have that?
What you mentioned was sorcery - as for whether Maul could do it...maybe? If he gets angry enough he can match blades with Sidious, and Sidious with some more power growth is threatening the entire universe without a ritual. Of course this chain ignores some incredibly large multipliers, which Sadow's ritual clearly is. It's also apparently highly circumstantial, seeing as how he doesn't one-shot the Republic by razing Coruscant or something.
Sadow might know more about sorcery than Dooku, but he hasn't exhibited the same dominance of upper-tier combatants, nor has he ragdolled cruisers.