Originally posted by riv6672
Well this i can agree with.
Thats why i have the stance i do in the other debate. None of those heralds in character go straight out using their full speed. Ergo the normal character portrayals of how Dream Girl operates are a possibility in say 20- 30% of the time especially given she's depicted using them that way so frequently. The likelihood that whee would foresee their move and start to react before they initiate it is higher then them blitzing out of the gate. It therefore becomes a possibility that has greater chance.
As another example i hate the Flash blitzes argument because they dont do that in character. Yet Johnny Quick in character is a bloody hot head who acts before thinking and would blitz out of the gate. Ironically hes often depicted as getting into trouble doing so. Flash>>>> JQ in speed but JQ >>>>>>>Flash in likelihood to blitz.
Originally posted by beatboks
Thats why i have the stance i do in the other debate. None of those heralds in character go straight out using their full speed. Ergo the normal character portrayals of how Dream Girl operates are a possibility in say 20- 30% of the time especially given she's depicted using them that way so frequently. The likelihood that whee would foresee their move and start to react before they initiate it is higher then them blitzing out of the gate. It therefore becomes a possibility that has greater chance.As another example i hate the Flash blitzes argument because they dont do that in character. Yet Johnny Quick in character is a bloody hot head who acts before thinking and would blitz out of the gate. Ironically hes often depicted as getting into trouble doing so. Flash>>>> JQ in speed but JQ >>>>>>>Flash in likelihood to blitz.
Problem is, you yourself say it: JQ acts without thinking. And blitzes.
Which implies Wally acts WITH thinking. So how long does it take Wally, who was able to out calculate Solaris....to decide to blitz?
Originally posted by riv6672
Flash speed stealing is the Superman blitzing of speedsters.
Well that is the thing though, comics are meant to be stories, anything can happen in a comic. This is why characters forget to use their powers correctly at certain parts.
Superman has high end reflexes and can calculate all kinds of shit in a split second, right? So if he see's a group of people that he knows are very powerful and he knows that basically the safest way to end the fight is to stop it before it even begins...why would he actually allow the fight to happen? Allow all the destruction and mayhem to occur if it can be ended quickly and quietly?
It's not because Superman gets off on destruction, nor is it because he is so dumb he doesn't realize he can use his powers to end the situation before it gets too out of hand and people die..which you would think would be things Superman would want, right? It would in essence be in character for him to want to stop these things before they happen if he could. To end these battles before they can wreck the surroundings. Thus it's not really an "in character" trait he doesn't use his speed, it's just comics. That is how I see it at least. Superman isn't Goku, he doesn't actually get off on the idea of fighting. If it were up to him he'd prevent it.
Originally posted by Surtur
Well that is the thing though, comics are meant to be stories, anything can happen in a comic. This is why characters forget to use their powers correctly at certain parts.Superman has high end reflexes and can calculate all kinds of shit in a split second, right? So if he see's a group of people that he knows are very powerful and he knows that basically the safest way to end the fight is to stop it before it even begins...why would he actually allow the fight to happen? Allow all the destruction and mayhem to occur if it can be ended quickly and quietly?
It's not because Superman gets off on destruction, nor is it because he is so dumb he doesn't realize he can use his powers to end the situation before it gets too out of hand and people die..which you would think would be things Superman would want, right? It would in essence be in character for him to want to stop these things before they happen if he could. To end these battles before they can wreck the surroundings. Thus it's not really an "in character" trait he doesn't use his speed, it's just comics. That is how I see it at least. Superman isn't Goku, he doesn't actually get off on the idea of fighting. If it were up to him he'd prevent it.
Its the underlined i want to address. That says that these characters know each other well enough to know what they are capable of. In this thread for example the JLA would need to know to avoid the crap out of pursuarders axe. Etc. In the heralds vs Legion the beralds would need to know what type of threat the LoSH is and exactly who the threats trully are.
So for example you say it relies on someone in the battle doing nothing. In that other thread there are more characters equal to or above the heralds ìn power than the heralds themselves. There are more of them with greater speed. There are more of those with greater speed who actaully have many feats of using that speed.yet the arguments being put forward are still heralds nlitz and take out multitudes. So by this argument all the Legionares who are faster than the heralds are just supposed to sit on their hands and watch while their team mates die??
What may i ask is the likelihood that XS for example who could run rings around all the heralds at top speed simply allows a dozen of her team mates to die or be blitzed when removing them from harms way is childs play.
A post COIE KK has reacted to a blitzing blood lusted Mon-el and sent him star systems away with a judo throw but can't judo throw a slower herald say into another ??
Ultraboy, Thunder, Andromeda, Rond Vidar, Celeste, Quantum Queen, just to name some are all faste or close to the fastest heralds in speed. So 8 Legionares in total have speed at or above most of the heralds (in the case of three substantialy so). Yet the arguments being offered of Heralds blitz and take it are still offered and supported apparently by you. Add in the fact that a couple of other memebers like wildfire are close in speed and that there are a few above two combined heralds (like white witch).
It seems to me that your stance is a little hypocritical. It takes one side of that in one battle but crosses to the other in another
Originally posted by riv6672
To be fair that happens a lot, TO a lot of us. A lot of times without really meaning to.
True,
It's often easier to see the power capability of a character you know and love being dismissed because plot contrivance and not be aware that the same has occurred just as often for who you debate against. Since the character you oppose isn't close to you heart it's easier to forget I guess.
My dad always had a saying, "there are three sides to every story, his, hers and the truth. The truth is always somewhere in the middle, because we each only ever see our side"
Originally posted by riv6672
Your dad sounds like Matlock.
I mean that as a compliment.
My dad is my real life hero. In his 80's now and a veteran who tomorrow will be the first time I can remember he wont be marchin on Anzac day. Brought me up to believe if you dont stand for something and protect those who cant your of little to no worth. Hes the reason i joined the military and served (family tradition). His entire life all he ever did was make a stand for those who couldnt even after he left the service. When a neighbors wife was being beaten and chased with a knife he stepped in (unarmed i might add). When a women he worked with was being abused we took in her and her 5 kids. When he found out a publican in our town was dealing drugs he went and sorted him out. When someone he worked with wasnt recieving fair treatment my old man knocked some sense into the manager in questionquite literally).
Frankly I'll be lucky if i can ever make myself a quarter theman he is.