Valkorion vs. God Emperor of Mankind

Started by S_W_LeGenD5 pages

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hi there, I actually know stuff about the Emperor.

Physically the Emperor is around the level of his Primarchs. In terms of raw durability unaided by psychic ability, Konrad Curze, Primarch of the Night Lords, as a baby smashed into his planet of Nostramo and left a huge tear through the crust, which was heavily composed of Adamantium (one of the hardest metals in the setting). He was sent through the crust to the mantle itself. He proceeded to crawl out, once more, as a baby.

In terms of physical strength, the Primarchs can level mountains. Magnus recalls privately destroying mountain-tops while training with his brothers, Lion El'Jonson's fight with a Chaos-empowered Luther destroyed the fortress they were fighting in with the shockwaves of their blows (Lion isn't an active psyker, so this was pure strength). In general, Primarchs can physically wound each other with their blows, as can the Emperor. They can also all physically dismember Space Marines in terminator armour and powered armour. Some feats of these Marines include Space Marines surviving an arcane explosion in a great library (about the size of a large city) that engulfed all of it and incinerated the lesser-armoured guardsmen accompanying them. The Marines explicitly survived the psyflame, and were only killed by debris that collapsed on them from the explosion, being crushed under its weight in their armour. Marines also survived an orbital bombardment of barrage bombs on a city which leveled it and killed most of the demons and tyranids present. Both are from the fifth edition Grey Knights codex.

In terms of speed and reaction-time, a lowly space marine in Know No Fear could scope out the area and process a series of effective kill routes that he could take if shit went bad in a single nanosecond. Another marine runs an enemy through in an opening that lasted a single microsecond. Primarchs like Rogal Dorn, Konrad Curze, Angron, Lorgar, etc have been described as moving and fighting faster than a Space Marine can perceive.

The Emperor is mostly differentiated from his sons by his enormous psychic power. He is even more powerful than Magnus the Red and Lorgar, the first and second most powerful psykers among the primarchs. Magnus while fighting Leman Russ destroyed the surface of Prospero, he psychically afflicted a world with nightmares as a side effect of his power, he could incinerate towering Titans (it was 60+ meters tall and can withstand forces that can destabilize tectonic plates, like Deathstrike Missiles) with a hurricane of psyflame, etc. He's also explicitly the mightiest psyker in the setting. Some random villainous psyker named the Cacodominus who was killed by Black Templar marines was able to telepathically control 1,300 planetary systems with its power, but its psychic death scream was only a blip compared to the Astronomicon, which is powered by the Emperor's psychic power.

And yeah, the Emperor could psychically devastate the Realms of Chaos and is essentially a human Chaos God in terms of psychic might. As far as I'm aware no Star Wars character is nearly as powerful as him. But Odin? Odin could destroy the settings of both Star Wars and 40k with a single attack. [/B]


That is all great.

Now how he is supposed to fight Valkorion who is a disembodied entity that can completely conceal its presence from Jed and/or Sith, manipulate time, devastate worlds and siphon energy of both living beings and spirits?

All I see there is physical stuff.

Originally posted by deathslash
The emperor of mankind slaughters sidious and pretty much any other star wars character. Hell, Njal storm caller casually created a planetary storm that wiped out all life on the planet that he was fighting on and he isn't even considered to be on the emperor's level as far as psychers go. The emperor also beat horus after getting his through slit twice, his intestines pretty much hanging out, continuously losing blood, and suffering from multiple other injuries.

Valkorion not just consumed all life of a planet but also reduced it to a barren wasteland after recovering his strength. All of this in disembodied form.

Oh Legends... You're not actually going to try and argue this, right? :/

I'm going to admit I'm a little embarrassed to be a SW fan at this point.

^^^

You might be embarrassed but I feel that a debate is necessary. It is important to understand that you cannot defeat Valkorion through conventional methods.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Oh Legends... You're not actually going to try and argue this, right? :/

Originally posted by Syndicate
I'm going to admit I'm a little embarrassed to be a SW fan at this point.

😂

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Valkorion not just consumed all life of a planet but also reduced it to a barren wasteland after recovering his strength. All of this in disembodied form.
c'mon you can't actually think that valkorion has a chance. The emperor is so powerful that even with his body having been shattered and decaying 10,000 years prior to current warhammer stories, he's still using his powers as a psyker to hold four gods of chaos at bay and stop them from materializing in the universe. To give you an indication of how powerful these gods are, I'll tell you about slaanesh (the king/queen of lust, greed, hedonism, and perfection). When slaanesh was born, (s)he destroyed a portion of a galaxy as a result of (her)his birth and almost completely annihilated the all of the dark eldar. Hell, when the other chaos gods were still unformed, they were capable of devouring souls.

As far as the whole "how do you fight a disembodied presence?" question goes, you should direct your attention to the emperor's battle with horus. He unleashed a psychic attack that not only killed him almost instantaneously (he was a primarch that had the blessings of all four chaos gods), but it also obliterated his souls so that the gods couldn't bring him back.

Fair enough

But can you offer some proof? Like a quote or something?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
^^^

You might be embarrassed but I feel that a debate is necessary. It is important to understand that you cannot defeat Valkorion through conventional methods.

Dude, are you intentionally creating memes out of yourself?

Legend, when you raged at the "Sheev fangirls" in that other thread and said they were too biased to consider anything other than their own perspective, did you ever consider looking at a mirror?

Vitiate is da most powahfull user of da Dank Side. Dis includez Palastine who can destroy all of space which does include Gawd Emperor's New Groove of Mankind.

Sheev have hypes in encyclopedic mediums, but Vitiate's hypes comes in newer encyclopedic sources, and his ground realities are overriding. 👆

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Fair enough

But can you offer some proof? Like a quote or something?

The Emperor and Horus fought with a power that would have eviscerated any mortal man dozens of times over with each blow. The Emperor held back for much of the battle, remembering Horus as his beloved son and not wishing to believe that he had turned so utterly to Chaos. This allowed Horus to inflict crippling mortal wounds on the Emperor, since nothing short of the Emperor's full power would be sufficient to defeat him. At the critical point in the battle, a lone Adeptus Custode guard entered the room (while others state the lone warrior to be Ollanius Pius, an Imperial Army soldier). Horus flayed him alive with but a look and in that instant the Emperor realised how far his favoured son had fallen. The sacrifice of the Custodian bought the Emperor time to deliver a finishing blow to Horus. With iron resolve, he gathered his full strength and delivered a massive psychic blow that killed Horus almost instantly and obliterated his very soul. In his final moments, the powers of Chaos were driven from him and the Emperor sensed his favoured son's return to sanity for a fraction of a second before he finally died.

Some relevant quotes:

"His immense psychic powers envelop and protect Mankind across the entire galaxy. His consciousness wanders through Warp space, warring against the Daemons that inhabit it, keeping closed the doors between this world and the next.

If the Emperor fails then the Daemons of Chaos will flood into the galaxy. Every living human will become a gateway for the destruction of Mankind and the stuff of Warp space will submerge the galaxy. There will be no physical matter. No space. No time. Only Chaos."
-Warhammer 40k 5th Edition rulebook, pg.101


"Daemonic servants of Tzeentch create Warp rifts inside each of the twin suns of Haark. Soon, the leering faces upon the stars drive the entire population of the system insane, but the Daemons’ incessant bickering triggers a duel-nova event. With the fate of the system now measured in hours, the Black Consuls Chapter send in Strike Force Ultra Varnor to recover sacred relics from the time of their founding. Captain Varnor and his brothers brave both Daemons and madmen in the burning cities of Haark to collect the relics, narrowly escaping into the void only moments before the stars die spectacularly."
-Strike Force Ultra data sheet

"Here in the Great Ocean, he could be whatever he wanted to be; nothing was forbidden and anything was possible. Worlds flashed past him as he hurtled through the swelling tides of colour, light and dimensions without name. The roiling chaos of the aether was a playground for titanic forces, where entire universes could be created and destroyed with a random thought. How many trillions of potential lives were birthed and snuffed out just by thinking such things?"
-A Thousand Sons, pg.712

Yeah, the last one is a bit of an outlier, but the other two are easily applicable to the GEoM either directly or through power-scaling.

Destroying souls is conventional for the GEOM.

Valkorion dies by conventional means.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That is all great.

Now how he is supposed to fight Valkorion who is a disembodied entity that can completely conceal its presence from Jed and/or Sith,

By fighting and beating C'Tan who are incorporeal reality warpers who devour stars and destroy star systems and such cool shit

Emperor also banished Doombreed and some other OP'd Daemon to the warp by thinking it during the Horus Heresy IIRC

manipulate time,

Some psykers and daemons can do this

Magnus the Red can stop time across a planet and he's <Emperor

devastate worlds and siphon energy of both living beings and spirits?

IOW shit Greater Daemons can do and the Man Emperor>Primarchs>

All I see there is physical stuff.

It's worth noting that Primarchs are capable of hurting shit that's not even necessarily physical, like how Jaghati Khan can casually kill weird warp specters on some shit, or how Sanguinius beats the shit out of Greater Daemons like Ka'Bandha, or how Fulgrim crushing an Avatar of Khaine's face

Intangibility ain't shit

Legend's fearlessness makes me think he'd be a good candidate to be sacrificed to the aliens.

Spoiler:
jokes

Speaking of which... DAWN OF WAR 3!

Originally posted by SunRazer
Legend, when you raged at the "Sheev fangirls" in that other thread and said they were too biased to consider anything other than their own perspective, did you ever consider looking at a mirror?

You are lumping me with the wrong kind of fans. I am not even close to being as dense as Palpatine's fans normally are. Solid evidence here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=625848&pagenumber=3

I wanted answers and several members have provided sufficient information that concludes this hypothetical contest. I am not familiar with every fictional universe ever conceived. I don't have unlimited time for this kind of stuff.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
that concludes this hypothetical contest.

Thank the lord. If you want to clear your name of [some] bias in the eyes of all on the board, say "the God Emperor destroys Valkorion, completely and utterly".