Darth Bane and powerscaling

Originally posted by Haschwalth
Sorry? there evidence suggesting otherwise as well.
Yoda/Mace they all come close to Sidious, without Benefiting from some RoT type power up. It suggests, the RoT power up, is not as large, as one would claim.

Or it suggests that Yoda and Mace were extremely powerful in their own rights, given they're stated to be the two most powerful Jedi in history to that point.

You guys exaggerate it to be dozens of times more powerful. Which is illogical, when Anakin technically was only twice the potential of Sidious,

The numeral ratio is kind of irrelevant because we don't know what "twice as powerful" means or how Force power scales to measurable ability, etc. It could very well be that a 1% difference by this off-the-cusp scale Lucas gave in an interview means oneshot territory (or that Lucas wasn't using the numbers literally).

What matters more is the fact that the Banite Sith are on record having overthrown their masters consistently in direct combat, and that we already know that Tenebrous -> Plagueis -> Sidious alone is a massive power chain and this is only the last three Banite Sith. If the power growth across generations were tiny, then the apprentice would not have consistently won.

which is tiny to what the growth of the RoT is, it would suggest Sidious's potential successors, apprentice, would be Anakin level in growth.

Well the Banite Line of succession ends with Sidious but if he had succeeded his apprentice would have been a full potential Anakin, sooo...

Originally posted by Haschwalth
Honestly if Sidious were as powerful, as the Banite scalers think, he would rag doll, Yoda and Mace together.

He never claimed what he was saying was factual.

"substantiation needed" would have been more accurate but citation needed is more fun to say.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Or it suggests that Yoda and Mace were extremely powerful in their own rights, given they're stated to be the two most powerful Jedi in history to that point.

The numeral ratio is kind of irrelevant because we don't know what "twice as powerful" means or how Force power scales to measurable ability, etc. It could very well be that a 1% difference by this off-the-cusp scale Lucas gave in an interview means oneshot territory (or that Lucas wasn't using the numbers literally).

What matters more is the fact that the Banite Sith are on record having overthrown their masters consistently in direct combat, and that we already know that Tenebrous -> Plagueis -> Sidious alone is a massive power chain and this is only the last three Banite Sith. If the power growth across generations were tiny, then the apprentice would not have consistently won.

Well the Banite Line of succession ends with Sidious but if he had succeeded his apprentice would have been a full potential Anakin, sooo...

Originally posted by Haschwalth
1.False

It's outright stated, lol. And you can't complain that the fact pile could be wrong because your whole point is that Banite scaling is implausible, not that it isn't independently verified to 100% certainty.

2.Not enough, information to suggest what sizable gap, between each master it's unquantifiable. Also taking into account, they trained for the sole purpose of overthrowing/outgrowing their master. The gap in strength shouldn't matter too much. All we know is that they did. It's not enough to suggest it's more than 1-2% increase.

So you're telling me that the apprentice is only slightly more powerful than the master but just happens to win the fight consistently? The most parsimonious answer is that the apprentice is more powerful:

- sourcebooks say they get more powerful
- sources like Plagueis say they grow "powerful enough" to challenge their masters
- they challenge their masters and happen to win
- the data points we have suggest a growth, e.g. Sidious is far above Plagueis

You're contorting mental gymnastics if you don't acknowledge that the growth over the course of thirty generations would be immense.

3.well the force didn't create Anakin to be a Sith, he was created in response, Maul technically would of been the next in line, Anakin is a outlier.

Ok...? I don't see your point here.

Originally posted by The Ellimist

What matters more is the fact that the Banite Sith are on record having overthrown their masters consistently in direct combat

😆 😆

While Tenebrous was preoccupied holding aloft the slabs that threatened to crush the ship, Plagueis quickly reoriented himself, aiming his raised hands at the plummeting slabs above his Master and, with a downward motion of both arms, brought them down so quickly and with so much momentum that Tenebrous was buried almost before he understood what had hit him.

Hego kills nome

Crackling from his fingertips, a web of blue lightning ground itself on the Muun’s breathing device.

Sheev kills hego.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
Sorry? there evidence suggesting otherwise as well.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
So you're telling me that the apprentice is only slightly more powerful than the master but just happens to win the fight consistently?

You mean the fight they spend their entire apprenticeship preparing for? No, they don't just 'happen' to win that fight you're right.

Hey, hey. Nowhere does it say that you have to face your master in combat to take their title. Malak did it by firing at Darth Revan's ship. It's more about seizing the chance to eliminate your master once you think you've learned what is needed rather than facing them in combat. Also, people tend to take the word 'power' as having just one meaning(Force strength) In the context of Rule of Two, the word 'power' is represented by 'knowledge'.
The idea that students get a power boost from their dead master is stupid. Why would this happen only to the Banite Sith? If this is to be taken as fact: then, this happens to every Sith Master-Apprentice relation.

Not to mention that a Sith Master doesn't choose their apprentice/s based on their Force strength alone. A master also takes in account their determination, their gift for certain esoteric aspects of the Force, their capacity to adapt on the battlefield, their skills in negotiation, the rate at which the apprentice can learn.
On top of that, when it comes about the Banite Sith, they were never trained/meant to be 'grunts'(to be powerful/more powerful in the Force to go on the battlefield to fight wars against the Republic and the Jedi, that was a concept met in the ancient Sith philosophy)
Darth Bane's order focused on cunning, manipulation, knowledge, secrecy, etc
Bane's order didn't take the galaxy due to Force strength, it took it based on secrecy, cunning, etc
Bane understood that the galaxy cannot be taken by 'Force', it can only be taken by cunning. That's why he didn't challenge the Brotherhood of Darkness in combat. He knew he'd die(even if he is 'teh' Sith'ari)