TOR Swordsmen vs. PT Swordsmen

Started by Col. Valerian3 pages

It's really not a legitimate argument tbh.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Ok so Exar Kun vs. Coleman Trebor and his uber advanced lightsaber techniques, duel only. Go.
😂

I'm with Aurbere on this one.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Ok so Exar Kun vs. Coleman Trebor and his uber advanced lightsaber techniques, duel only. Go.

The irony being Neph tried to say Jedi didn't practice dueling in the thousand or so year between PoD and TPM, and that obviously Kas'im was the greatest Sith ever with a lightsaber because he made up some techniques. The point is that logic doesn't hold up because being the one that made up a bunch of random and unaccounted for techniques doesn't make you better than someone else who can also use them. It's like saying you can't do math because you didn't come up with the Pythagorean Theorem.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Ok so Exar Kun vs. Coleman Trebor and his uber advanced lightsaber techniques, duel only. Go.

Trebor wins.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The irony being Neph tried to say Jedi didn't practice dueling in the thousand or so year between PoD and TPM, and that obviously Kas'im was the greatest Sith ever with a lightsaber because he made up some techniques. The point is that logic doesn't hold up because being the one that made up a bunch of random and unaccounted for techniques doesn't make you better than someone else who can also use them. It's like saying you can't do math because you didn't come up with the Pythagorean Theorem.

It's ironic, but do you agree that this 'newer moar advanced techniques' logic is flawed?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
That's a gross simplification of a legitimate argument.

It could have been legitimate, but it's been ruined by the logical fallacies the argument's detractors employ.

In what ways do you think it could've been legitimate?

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
In what ways do you think it could've been legitimate?

For one, suggesting Trebor > Kun because PT is absurd and baseless and is nothing more than a bastardization of the material. Secondly, the thread featuring Nahdar and Sha'gi is a classic case of reductio ad absurdum. Essentially the implication is that being born in the PT era makes one inherit the progression of lightsaber combat so anyone in the PT stomps anyone outside of it.

The actual argument is about a knowledge base. Progression and development of lightsaber combat allows future generations to have a larger pool of knowledge to draw on, thus a higher plane of mastery. It in no way suggests that every PT duelist ever is some awesome lightsaber duelist.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
It's ironic, but do you agree that this 'newer moar advanced techniques' logic is flawed?

I do. But that was not the argument being made to begin with.

Originally posted by Aurbere
It could have been legitimate, but it's been ruined by the logical fallacies the argument's detractors employ.

Peons will use tactics to make a good argument seem false.

Strategy 101.

Originally posted by Aurbere
For one, suggesting Trebor > Kun because PT is absurd and baseless and is nothing more than a bastardization of the material. Secondly, the thread featuring Nahdar and Sha'gi is a classic case of reductio ad absurdum. Essentially the implication is that being born in the PT era makes one inherit the progression of lightsaber combat so anyone in the PT stomps anyone outside of it.

The actual argument is about a knowledge base. Progression and development of lightsaber combat allows future generations to have a larger pool of knowledge to draw on, thus a higher plane of mastery. It in no way suggests that every PT duelist ever is some awesome lightsaber duelist.

👆

Originally posted by Aurbere
reductio ad absurdum
avada kedavra

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Peons will use tactics to make a good argument seem false.

Strategy 101.

👆

True. But it's not just that. Simple debating has become an effort to render good arguments false. This is a clear attempt at mockery and simply an underhanded tactic.

Still, strategy 101.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
avada kedavra

Is this the part where our streams cross? Because that's gross.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
avada kedavra

😆

Originally posted by Aurbere
For one, suggesting Trebor > Kun because PT is absurd and baseless and is nothing more than a bastardization of the material. Secondly, the thread featuring Nahdar and Sha'gi is a classic case of reductio ad absurdum. Essentially the implication is that being born in the PT era makes one inherit the progression of lightsaber combat so anyone in the PT stomps anyone outside of it.

The actual argument is about a knowledge base. Progression and development of lightsaber combat allows future generations to have a larger pool of knowledge to draw on, thus a higher plane of mastery. It in no way suggests that every PT duelist ever is some awesome lightsaber duelist.

And how exactly are we supposed to implement this progression and development of lightsaber combat into SW debates?

We have Cin Drallig who mastered every single form of lightsaber combat being absolutely tooled by the infinitely more talented and powerful Darth Vader. So, really, how much does the actual dueling techniques Jedi and Sith utilize really matter?

They're nothing compared the actual natural talents, abilities, powers and potential of Force-using individuals. The only case when imo 'advanced saber techniques' could be a relevant factor is when two individuals with a very similar pool of talents or abilities to draw upon face each other and one of them has mastered the art of saber combat to a higher degree than the other and thus has a clear and decisive advantage over the opponent.

Other than that, I do not believe it can be as relevant in a duel as some might think.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
And how exactly are we supposed to implement this progression and development of lightsaber combat into SW debates?

We have Cin Drallig who mastered every single form of lightsaber combat being absolutely tooled by the infinitely more talented and powerful Darth Vader. So, really, how much does the actual dueling techniques Jedi and Sith utilize really matter?

They're nothing compared the actual natural talents, abilities, powers and potential of Force-using individuals. The only case when imo 'advanced saber techniques' could be a relevant factor is when two individuals with a very similar pool of talents or abilities to draw upon face each other and one of them has mastered the art of saber combat to a higher degree than the other and thus has a clear and decisive advantage over the opponent.

Other than that, I do not believe it can be as relevant in a duel as some might think.

Bearing that in mind, apply that logic to Plo vs Kas'im. 😉

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
And how exactly are we supposed to implement this progression and development of lightsaber combat into SW debates?

We have Cin Drallig who mastered every single form of lightsaber combat being absolutely tooled by the infinitely more talented and powerful Darth Vader. So, really, how much does the actual dueling techniques Jedi and Sith utilize really matter?

They're nothing compared the actual natural talents, abilities, powers and potential of Force-using individuals. The only case when imo 'advanced saber techniques' could be a relevant factor is when two individuals with a very similar pool of talents or abilities to draw upon face each other and one of them has mastered the art of saber combat to a higher degree than the other and thus has a clear and decisive advantage over the opponent.

Other than that, I do not believe it can be as relevant in a duel as some might think.


Which again, was the point, because Neph is the one who made that ridiculous argument to begin with.

I didn't actually.

Yes you did hon. 🙂

Fs said what he'd done was common. I pointed out that perfect mastery of all forms is far from it. Then u guys jumped on me and distorted the point.