😂
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Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Except I told you what I do and other members know what I do. You insisted nobody cares (while obviously caring enough to tell me what I don't do), so try again TI. This is getting a little too easy for me. Think I'll move on and allow you to continue embarrassing yourself in these threads. 😂Amazon wholesale.
AmazonWarehouse
"User banned by REXXXX, permanently
Reason: Sock"
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=151214
Originally posted by Time-ImmemorialBut...I thought I was a sock? If I was a sock, I would be permanently banned? Which one is it? I hope this question did not confuse you but I expect another nerd rage comment so you can get the last word in. Have a good one as you spend the rest of the night frothing at the mouth 👆
Oh I know you were allowed to come back under certain circumstances.
@The_Ellimist
Nai have come-up with some valid points. I too found his interpretation a bit problematic earlier but his recent responses are very well done.
Twisting the space-time continuum leads to creation of the Force Storm. Of-course, a Force-user has to do the twisting part through his own abilities. The resultant Force Storm however is extremely dangerous and difficult to control. Some Force-users learned this fact the hard way.
Palpatine seems to have mastered the ability to create Force Storms but the level of control he could exercise upon one is open to debate. I'd say that Palpatine was able to control the Force Storm that he sent towards Coruscant but this manifestation was less powerful then the manifestation over Da Soocha.
And yes, the second Force Storm took time to dissipate even after its connection to Palpatine was severed. This is compatible with the assertion that twisting of space-time continuum leads to creation of Force Storm.
Moreover, if we assume that the potency of Force Storm depends upon the Force-user who summoned one, then it is becomes even more clear that Palpatine cannot summon a Force Storm so large and powerful that it could threaten all of space. Therefore, the Comics Companion revelation can be discarded.
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
But...I thought I was a sock? If I was a sock, I would be permanently banned? Which one is it? I hope this question did not confuse you but I expect another nerd rage comment so you can get the last word in. Have a good one as you spend the rest of the night frothing at the mouth 👆
You are to easy to piss off, try some thick skin, you could use some.
Rexx said it best: Sock.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=151214
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@The_EllimistNai have come-up with some valid points. I too found his interpretation a bit problematic earlier but his recent responses are very well done.
Twisting the space-time continuum leads to creation of the Force Storm. Of-course, a Force-user has to do the twisting part through his own abilities. The resultant Force Storm however is extremely dangerous and difficult to control. Some Force-users learned this fact the hard way.
Palpatine seems to have mastered the ability to create Force Storms but the level of control he could exercise upon one is open to debate. I'd say that Palpatine was able to control the Force Storm that he sent towards Coruscant but this manifestation was less powerful then the manifestation over Da Soocha.
And yes, the second Force Storm took time to dissipate even after its connection to Palpatine was severed. This is compatible with the assertion that twisting of space-time continuum leads to creation of Force Storm.
I honestly think it's semantics at this point and if Nai's argument is valid, then every single instance of a force attack has to be reevaluated.
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
I honestly think it's semantics at this point and if Nai's argument is valid, then every single instance of a force attack has to be reevaluated.
Technique: Twisting the space-time continuum
Result: Force Storm
Whosoever learns the ability to twist space-time continuum, will be able to conjure a Force Storm as the result. However, Force Storm is an extremely volatile and dangerous phenomenon by default. If the Force-user fails to control it, then end-result can be bad for him.
Another example to consider is that of an artifact named Darkstaff. It is not clear if Darkstaff can be actually used to summon a Force Storm whenever somebody wanted to. However, one of the Dark Rivan's experiments with it led it to twist space-time continuum and the resultant Force Storm sent Darth Rivan across time to another world but he lost his powers as a consequence.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
So to recap:
[list]
[*]When a source refers to Palpatine's own dark power, it obviously refers to something else because Nai's interpretation
[*]Because Palpatine's Force storms can threaten all of space, so too can all the ancient Sith because Nai really likes them
[*]Palpatine not explicitly mentioning personal power in other sources equals explicit proclamation that personal power has nothing to do with Force storms
[*]Galaxy-threatening Force storms mean that any Force user can threaten the galaxy with any Force ability
[*]Aaaaaaand Palpatine's "definitely not a universe buster" until I prove that he can universe bust in any situation without context or catalyst
[/list]
Another LeGenDary argument from Nai. Well done, sir!
New additions to the recap:
[list]
[*]Nai's long post history attacking Sheev and favoring ancient Sith isn't bias or an agenda, it's "enlightenment" {Even when the status quo favored the ancient Sith}
[*]A source can only be properly understood if we know the author's intent, unless you're Nai, who is psychic
[/list]
Also gotta say: I find it hilarious that a guy who made it his hobby for years of disregarding the 1993 DESB, disregarding it because of its age, now wants to cling to it as the gospel at the expense of newer sources that he doesn't like.
Like the time you argued that the fluff surrounding RPG items and stats was non-canon, anyway.
Aren't you using that RPG sourcebook fluff about Force storms at this very moment to undermine newer sources?
Thank God you're clearly above petty agendas.
Nai as interesting as your anaylsis is your hypothesis doesn't quite support your conclusion (that the destructive potency of the Force storm is not linked to the power of its creator) and neither does your farm animal analogy work with the facts.
Now what you have provided proof for is the notion that once created, the Storm is self sustaining and independent of the Force wielder's power. Hence why the wielder is seemingly unable to affect its size and diameter after creation, can find himself turned upon by it, that it is described as an independent entity by some and finally because it eventually dissipates after the wielders death.
However, none of that refutes or alters the fact that it is described quite explicitly to be a product of the wielder's own power. As it is stated to be by Palpatine himself:
And by objective supplementary material:
And while claiming the source material to be in this case, inaccurate, can be under certain circumstances justified, doing so when the source material is reinforced by an explicit description from the creator himself is verging on absurdity, so excuse me while I refrain from doing so.
And this is where I find your analogy to be flawed. You liken the Force Storm to a farm animal in the respect that it is an autonomous entity. But where does the farm animal come from? Not from the farmer for sure, it can from another farm animal, the farmer had no hand it it's creation whatsoever.
Whereas the Force storm is a direct product of the "vast energies" of the wielder. This leads me to propose another analogy that would reconcile with all the source material (as much as I see merit in your method, I personally prefer one that does this, as the former is too susceptible to personal inference and arbitrary assumptions imho - see Temp's response tbh 😉); instead lets liken it to a creation of Sith alchemy, a Sith spawn.
Now a Sith spawn, like a farm animal, is a wholly autonomous entity, but unlike a farm animal its being and indeed its capabilities, are directly attributable to the power of the one who created it. Just as the destructive capabilities of the Force storm, as evidently a product of the Force wielder's own power, has its destructive capability and other properties attributable to them.
Nonetheless a Sith spawn is autonomous, its no longer dependent on the creator's power after creation, the creator does not have the ability to alter its abilities or proportions, and the possibility of the creature turning on its master exists. Indeed something of that nature could at once be referred to as "a chaos monster even he cannot control" and "his own dark power creation."
My understanding therefore would be that while the Force storm can be claimed to be autonomous once created i.e. no longer dependent on the creator's power, it remains an ultimate product of it, and its properties therefore relative to it.
That said, your argument for the Force storms autonomy post-creation still falters under scrutiny. To elaborate:
1. The practitioner cannot alter the dimensions of the storm post-creation according to DESB.
First off that's not actually what the source material says. Only that they must determine its proportions prior to creating it, this does not at all preclude them modifiying these parameters after its been formed.
Secondly its a game mechanic for an RPG, so could very well therefore be simple fluff to this end.
And finally it describes this in terms of a Jedi (which is dubious in itself as by its very nature, no Jedi should be capable of such a feat) not Palpatine. Who as the greatest known master of the ability would well be more proficient in this regard.
2. It is possible for the practitioner to lose control of the Storm and be destroyed by it.
Which you seem to believe is irreconcilable with the idea that its sustained by the Force wielders power. But while it certainly indicates autonomy I do not feel it precludes it. All it means is as I said, additional power to required - on top of generating and subsequently fueling the storm - to control what has been unleashed. And it stands to reason if they failed to accomplish the last part they could potentially find themselves in the Storm's destructive path.
And seeing as we do not know the mechanics of the power, we cannot assuming cutting off its power source would be sufficient to immediately end its threat.
3. It is described by Luke as a seeming independent entity i.e. "a chaos even he cannot control."
This is a simple case of which you believe to be more accurate, Luke's words or the source material's description of it as "his own dark power". Certainly Palpatine doesn't see to agree with his assessment.
4. The fact that the storm only dissipates minutes after the death of the creator.
This would be the biggest problem with your argument, for while the storm does take time to dissipate. It still does, which means the storm must be dependent on the wielder in some form in a manner you've yet to articulate.
Certainly it does not fit with your analogy, is a farmer dies the farm animal will not die with them. Will it?