Location here? Are we assuming that the Masters can manifest all abilities shown and entities summoned by them? That I don't see Palps being a match for, not to the extent necessary to both face all of them simultaneously in the Force and in direct combat. The Phobis advice and their twisting of Oricon as well as their ability to summon Force manifestations, transport their forces instantaneously over distance, and alter reality make it a pretty hard sell that Papls walks in and takes the day. You're talking about him resisting mental and physical Force assaults from six powerful Sith alchemists, sorcerers, and duelists who have studied their craft for hundreds of years at the same time face-to-face. Just don't see that happening.
Originally posted by Ascendancy
Location here? Are we assuming that the Masters can manifest all abilities shown and entities summoned by them? That I don't see Palps being a match for, not to the extent necessary to both face all of them simultaneously in the Force and in direct combat. The Phobis advice and their twisting of Oricon as well as their ability to summon Force manifestations, transport their forces instantaneously over distance, and alter reality make it a pretty hard sell that Papls walks in and takes the day. You're talking about him resisting mental and physical Force assaults from six powerful Sith alchemists, sorcerers, and duelists who have studied their craft for hundreds of years at the same time face-to-face. Just don't see that happening.
This is basically how I feel about it. It's inconceivable to me that pretty much anyone could take all six of them at once.
Originally posted by Ascendancy
Location here? Are we assuming that the Masters can manifest all abilities shown and entities summoned by them? That I don't see Palps being a match for, not to the extent necessary to both face all of them simultaneously in the Force and in direct combat. The Phobis advice and their twisting of Oricon as well as their ability to summon Force manifestations, transport their forces instantaneously over distance, and alter reality make it a pretty hard sell that Papls walks in and takes the day. You're talking about him resisting mental and physical Force assaults from six powerful Sith alchemists, sorcerers, and duelists who have studied their craft for hundreds of years at the same time face-to-face. Just don't see that happening.
I see it happening. None of what you mentioned has demonstrated a fraction of the power of Darth Sidious.
Except that all of it does? Except that much of what they demonstrated is beyond someone like Gethzerion, and he wouldn't even go near her system? If you think Sidious would walk in and facerull the entirety of the Dread Council you're just ignoring what they've shown themselves to be capable of. They more than elicit the Force beyond a fraction of his powers on their own, let alone as a group.
Originally posted by Ascendancy
The Phobis advice
Sidious collected and studied millions of pieces of work from across his Empire, and by Dark Empire had been rumored to know basically every Force technique, and was creating new ones on a whim. I don't think just learning some device puts the dread masters on his level.
and their twisting of Oricon
TPM Sidious twisted the Force itself by meditating; before the OT, he had mentally enslaved an entire planetary population for use as a dark side battery, and by RotJ he was casually transferring people's consciousnesses.
as well as their ability to summon Force manifestations,
Sidious and Vader can both do this.
transport their forces instantaneously over distance,
Sidious can transport Luke light-years via his storms.
and alter reality make it a pretty hard sell that Papls walks in and takes the day. You're talking about him resisting mental and physical Force assaults from six powerful Sith alchemists, sorcerers, and duelists who have studied their craft for hundreds of years at the same time face-to-face. Just don't see that happening.
When have the dread masters turned the balance of the Force to the point where the Force had to create a being from immaculate conception just to fight them? When have they enslaved an entire planetary populace? When have they mentally dominated someone on the level of DE Luke? When have they overloaded Yoda's tutanimus? When have they generated force storms capable of destroying planetary surfaces and annihilating entire fleets?
BTW by official statements, DE Sidious > RotS Sidious > Plagueis > Vitiate >>> the Dread Masters.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Shrouded the long-range precognitive abilities of the most powerful Jedi Order in galactic history.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Mind controlled the entire population of Byss.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Removed the memory of the take-off of a super star destroyer from the minds of potentially tens of trillions or more.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah, Palpatine's telepathy is pretty far beyond the Dead Masters'.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
One of the greatest masters of the Force is wrong about the Force because Neph said so. 😐He wasn't just talking in terms of Force storms either, in fact in that passage I quoted from goes on to attribute Malgus' understanding of this concept to his battlefield accomplishments. And in the Dark Empire sourcebook rendering, he describes how he himself employed this knowledge to cast Force lightning, and use Force kill from a distance. So yes, he means power in general.
And Vitiate's situation is irrelevant, what's important is him associating Force power with will, but I'm guessing the greatest master of the Force in history at that point is also wrong. Right?They tend too actually, for example Palpatine before receiving any formal training had such willpower that he was able to prevent Plagueis from intruding on his mind. But I guess it was just a coincidence he ended up going to do be the most powerful Sith Lord in history. Luke Skywalker also tested for Force sensitivity by intruding on people's minds and seeing if they would instinctively resist, but no your right, there's is clearly no correlation. These people were just really charismatic. 🙄
Definition of WILLPOWER: control deliberately exerted to do something or to restrain one's own impulses.
It is obvious that will is involved in the initiation of each act, and willpower is about self-control.
However, will is not an expression of mental defense in itself. Mental defenses are actual Force powers.
Argument is that Revan's ability to resist telepathic intrusions is beyond that of Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker (as of Dark Empire) as apparent from his showings. Revan's extraordinary command of the Force in-conjunction with his extraordinary willpower made it possible for him to resist telepathic influence of Vitiate and the Dread Masters for centuries.