Silver Surfer vs. World Breaker Hulk.

Originally posted by Fiendish
Surfer can use his speed to evade and dodge his opponents, or at least he has. Both using the board and independently of it.

http://i.imgur.com/z0DQ9n3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/USqJoHr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GqIRDLF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GHexPux.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6CTSGov.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PGnXceB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UkgM0Fi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MFBysJT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/98ZpW03.jpg

We've known he could fight at high speed since Silver Surfer #7 (1969).

http://i.imgur.com/Fy2eqN5.jpg

He's specifically shown he can zip around his opponent hitting them from multiple angles simultaneously.

http://i.imgur.com/gW5Gu8w.jpg

Originally posted by Horrificus
Surfer can move at speed of light.

Hulk starts his thunderclap but never gets to finish it, with no hands.

Or, he finds a "power cosmic pillow" stopping his clap.

Or, Hulk finds himself clapping somewhere between earth and the moon, clapping in a harmless direction.

Finally, if Hulk tries anything more exotic, it becomes apparent to him that he is suddenly changed into a Gamma irradiated pile of feces.

And, most of us know, poop cannot clap.
And if poop CAN clap, it's mostly just gross.

Originally posted by carver9
None of this will happen.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk can beat not Silver Surfer, to versatile

Originally posted by carver9
Matter manipulation doesn't even work on Hulk. It has been tried and failed. He over powers it via rage (yes, I know that sounds crazy but it's comics).

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk can beat not Silver Surfer, to versatile

Originally posted by carver9
Yep, and Goom shrunk Hulk down to the size of a mouse and he overpowered it via rage. Hulk has become more powerful since then. I don't see it working, at all.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk can beat not Silver Surfer, to versatile

Originally posted by h1a8
I agree. The thunderclap can't be evaded though.

http://i.imgur.com/5TYoEyY.jpg

He's taken physical action in less than a nanosecond

http://i.imgur.com/F8G3LGk.jpg

He stripped the Old Power off of Skaar and simultaneously returned it to Sakaar in just moments.

Surfer's specifically used power stripping right out of the gate before. His first and only move against Sympira was to strip her of her power entirely.

http://i.imgur.com/If9FAaA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DXGgox0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/V4yzOSx.jpg

Originally posted by Fiendish
That's a good point but who's more likely to be first off the block. I mean Surfer has appraised a situation in a microsecond.

http://i.imgur.com/5TYoEyY.jpg

He's taken physical action in less than a nanosecond

http://i.imgur.com/F8G3LGk.jpg

He stripped the Old Power off of Skaar and simultaneously returned it to Sakaar in just moments.

Surfer's specifically used power stripping right out of the gate before. His first and only move against Sympira was to strip her of her power entirely.

http://i.imgur.com/If9FAaA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DXGgox0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/V4yzOSx.jpg

The first scan is acceptable to argue his thinking speed.
The second scan is iffy as it could be figurative talk. It's possible for Surfer to have broke free in any indefinite short amount of time (even 2 seconds).

But assuming so,
Thinking speed only allows one to begin the process of activating a power. It doesn't guarantee that the entire process will be as quick. For example, Surfer can activate siphoning energy the first microsecond but the entire process could take several seconds (depending on how much energy he is siphoning). Anything exotic that Surfer has ever done has taken at least a second. It would take WBH less than a microsecond to thunderclap. You must show evidence that Surfer has siphoned energy (WBH level energy especially) completely in less than a microsecond.

Originally posted by h1a8
The second scan is iffy as it could be figurative talk. It's possible for Surfer to have broke free in any indefinite short amount of time (even 2 seconds).

Given the context of the scene and the fact that a specific timeframe is given and then reiterated, the evidence points to it not being figurative.

Originally posted by h1a8
But assuming so,
Thinking speed only allows one to begin the process of activating a power. It doesn't guarantee that the entire process will be as quick. For example, Surfer can activate siphoning energy the first microsecond but the entire process could take several seconds (depending on how much energy he is siphoning). Anything exotic that Surfer has ever done has taken at least a second. It would take WBH less than a microsecond to thunderclap. You must show evidence that Surfer has siphoned energy (WBH level energy especially) completely in less than a microsecond.

Has Hulk pulled off a thunderclap in less than a microsecond? While being drained?
Wouldn't you first have to show evidence of this in order for the onus to be on me to show Surfer could drain him in less time?

Surfer hasn't drained anyone in less than a microsecond AFAIK. However he did drain Skaar of his purloined Old Power pretty quickly while simultaneously sending it back down into Sakaar. The amount of Old Power inside Sakaar was stated (multiple times) to be capable of sating Galactus's hunger for 100,000 years and Skaar had drained the planet to the brink of destruction.

Multiple 100,000 years statements:
http://i.imgur.com/kof9CrL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nADITn3.jpg

Skaar's selfish draining:
http://i.imgur.com/LwPOvRn.jpg

Originally posted by Fiendish
That's a good point but who's more likely to be first off the block. I mean Surfer has appraised a situation in a microsecond.

http://i.imgur.com/5TYoEyY.jpg

He's taken physical action in less than a nanosecond

http://i.imgur.com/F8G3LGk.jpg

He stripped the Old Power off of Skaar and simultaneously returned it to Sakaar in just moments.

Surfer's specifically used power stripping right out of the gate before. His first and only move against Sympira was to strip her of her power entirely.

http://i.imgur.com/If9FAaA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DXGgox0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/V4yzOSx.jpg

Also comparing a random character like Sympira to Hulk? Armcheddon who was beating Surfer's ass via energy manipulation couldn't do anything to Hulk. Neither could Rulk.

Surfer doesn't has a prayer here.

Originally posted by Fiendish
Given the context of the scene and the fact that a specific timeframe is given and then reiterated, the evidence points to it not being figurative.

Has Hulk pulled off a thunderclap in less than a microsecond? While being drained?
Wouldn't you first have to show evidence of this in order for the onus to be on me to show Surfer could drain him in less time?

Surfer hasn't drained anyone in less than a microsecond AFAIK. However he did drain Skaar of his purloined Old Power pretty quickly while simultaneously sending it back down into Sakaar. The amount of Old Power inside Sakaar was stated (multiple times) to be capable of sating Galactus's hunger for 100,000 years and Skaar had drained the planet to the brink of destruction.

Multiple 100,000 years statements:
http://i.imgur.com/kof9CrL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nADITn3.jpg

Skaar's selfish draining:
http://i.imgur.com/LwPOvRn.jpg

Are you seriously saying Surfer can drain WBH? He will get overloaded by simply WWH.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That nanosecond scene is just an illusion.

Also comparing a random character like Sympira to Hulk? Armcheddon who was beating Surfer's ass via energy manipulation couldn't do anything to Hulk. Neither could Rulk.

Surfer doesn't has a prayer here.
😂

Are you seriously saying Surfer can drain WBH? He will get overloaded by simply WWH.

Against Surfer the Fear-Eater's manifestations all had real effects and consequences, hence why when he trapped Surfer back on Earth, Surfer was actually transported to Earth and why the Fear-Eater had to protect the deglazed Norrin from the rigors of space.

Also fresh off of feeding on the Surfer when the Fear-Eater invaded The Captain and created the villain "Cold War", the villain stayed transformed even after the Fear-Eater had left The Captain's body.

http://i.imgur.com/7Jy8gjO.jpg

The Sympira showing was just evidence that Surfer has specifically used power stripping as an opening move, as I explained when I posted it.

Surfer doesn't have to absorb the energy he strips from Hulk, he didn't absorb the gamma radiation the first time he depowered him.

http://i.imgur.com/njuuE05.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rCERjnQ.jpg

Originally posted by Fiendish
Against Surfer the Fear-Eater's manifestations all had real effects and consequences, hence why when he trapped Surfer back on Earth, Surfer was actually transported to Earth and why the Fear-Eater had to protect the deglazed Norrin from the rigors of space.

The fear eater only teleported Surfer to Earth. Anything else was just an illusion.

Fear Eater never turned Surfer into Norrin, if that was done his board wouldn't exist. He flat out says that the power is still within him.

Also fresh off of feeding on the Surfer when the Fear-Eater invaded The Captain and created the villain "Cold War", the villain stayed transformed even after the Fear-Eater had left The Captain's body.

http://i.imgur.com/7Jy8gjO.jpg

Wow, scan editing much? Those are from two different pages.

Here is the synopsis of the whole issue.

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/marvel_comics_presents_2_capta.shtml

Captain was fighting Cold War from start.

The Sympira showing was just evidence that Surfer has specifically used power stripping as an opening move, as I explained when I posted it.

Too bad it won't work.

Surfer doesn't have to absorb the energy he strips from Hulk, he didn't absorb the gamma radiation the first time he depowered him.

http://i.imgur.com/njuuE05.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rCERjnQ.jpg

Yeah, savage hulk. This hulk is so much more powerful than savage hulk, it's not even funny.

Even WWH would overpower the draining of Rulk which drained savage hulk so completely that Banner couldn't turn back to hulk for a year. Surfer has never been able to do that.

WBH is on another level.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The fear eater only teleported Surfer to Earth. Anything else was just an illusion.

Fear Eater never turned Surfer into Norrin, if that was done his board wouldn't exist. He flat out says that the power is still within him.

Wow, scan editing much? Those are from two different pages.

Here is the synopsis of the whole issue.

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/marvel_comics_presents_2_capta.shtml

Captain was fighting Cold War from start.

Too bad it won't work.

Yeah, savage hulk. This hulk is so much more powerful than savage hulk, it's not even funny.

Even WWH would overpower the draining of Rulk which drained savage hulk so completely that Banner couldn't turn back to hulk for a year. Surfer has never been able to do that.

WBH is on another level.

All of the Fear-Eater's effects were artificial (the narration explicitly states this is why Surfer could break the barrier around Earth) but it's clear the consequences were still real. It was the Fear-Eater's own thought bubble that stated that he had to protect Norrin from the rigors of space so he could feed, he wouldn't have thought that to himself if he didn't actually have to protect Norrin.

The villain was created by the Fear-Eater, this is irrefutable.

http://imgur.com/ik5PmHi

You think I edited the scan? Seriously?

Right, this Hulk is far more powerful, that's why I brought up the instance where Surfer stripped and manipulated the Old Power Skaar had absorbed from Sakaar. AFAIK nothing Galactus has ever fed on (planets, stars, Hyperstorm) has even come close to sating his hunger for a 100,000 years.

It's implied by both Surfer and Banner in the issue, that Surfer's initial depowerment of Hulk would have been permanent had Banner not been exposed to a large dose of gamma radiation again and Surfer did this with "the merest burst of his Power Cosmic".

The fear eater is a non feat.

Originally posted by Fiendish
All of the Fear-Eater's effects were artificial (the narration explicitly states this is why Surfer could break the barrier around Earth) but it's clear the consequences were still real.

No, they were not. He just animated a frozen person and the person was still frozen. He didn't just create that villain out of thin air.

He also created the illusion of Ragnarok happening to Thor. The only time we see fear eaters at work from a third party view is this.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vgiJFI8JfpI/VvoDMM9rYVI/AAAAAAAAIj0/314fxeO3dv8HYBqQCxwS_B58N1HHPSRhgCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO007_w.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eSH9smwROFQ/VvoDMHK-9GI/AAAAAAAAIj0/pf-tJGbum6UzXYR66qaukN6jpG3XukGjwCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO008.jpg

They just merge with a host and cause illusions.

It was the Fear-Eater's own thought bubble that stated that he had to protect Norrin from the rigors of space so he could feed, he wouldn't have thought that to himself if he didn't actually have to protect Norrin.

That's nothing conclusive at all.

Surfer had all his powers and hence didn't need to breath at all.

The villain was created by the Fear-Eater, this is irrefutable.

http://imgur.com/ik5PmHi

No, he was animated by Fear Eater. You took him still being frozen as if Fear Eater created him from thin air.

You think I edited the scan? Seriously?

Yes.

Right, this Hulk is far more powerful, that's why I brought up the instance where Surfer stripped and manipulated the Old Power Skaar had absorbed from Sakaar.

That's not saying much. Old power is a variant of power cosmic itself. Skaar with the entire old power of Sakaar was beaten casually by WWH. Hiro Kala was handled the same way.

AFAIK nothing Galactus has ever fed on (planets, stars, Hyperstorm) has even come close to sating his hunger for a 100,000 years.

That's pretty much a hyperbole. Galactus indeed ate Queen Caiera. It only made him addicted to Old Power.

If you're going to quantify energy levels by hyperboles, be my guest and read Sentry's bio.

It's implied by both Surfer and Banner in the issue, that Surfer's initial depowerment of Hulk would have been permanent had Banner not been exposed to a large dose of gamma radiation again and Surfer did this with "the merest burst of his Power Cosmic".

It was merely hinted. Rulk actually did that. He also drained Surfer like he was his *****.

Armcheddon pretty much owned Surfer in energy manipulation too. When are you going to address that?

I love how you're always too lazy to quote properly, lol.

No worries, I worship the Goddes of Laziness myself.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, they were not. He just animated a frozen person and the person was still frozen. He didn't just create that villain out of thin air.

He also created the illusion of Ragnarok happening to Thor. The only time we see fear eaters at work from a third party view is this.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vgiJFI8JfpI/VvoDMM9rYVI/AAAAAAAAIj0/314fxeO3dv8HYBqQCxwS_B58N1HHPSRhgCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO007_w.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eSH9smwROFQ/VvoDMHK-9GI/AAAAAAAAIj0/pf-tJGbum6UzXYR66qaukN6jpG3XukGjwCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO008.jpg

They just merge with a host and cause illusions.

No, he was animated by Fear Eater. You took him still being frozen as if Fear Eater created him from thin air.

The frozen people looked like this.

http://i.imgur.com/v44AtvB.jpg

Nothing like the villain he carried out.

Yes the Fear-Eater animated one of the frozen people but the villain persona was clearly created by the Fear-Eater. The Fear-Eater involved a third party that he wasn't inside. It wasn't an illusion in that situation, it was the Fear-Eater's power.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's nothing conclusive at all. Surfer had all his powers and hence didn't need to breath at all.

How is that not conclusive? You're just going to try and handwave that away?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes

Sigh, read the issue yourself and then feel silly.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's not saying much. Old power is a variant of power cosmic itself. Skaar with the entire old power of Sakaar was beaten casually by WWH. Hiro Kala was handled the same way. That's pretty much a hyperbole. Galactus indeed ate Queen Caiera. It only made him addicted to Old Power.

There's nothing to contradict Sakaar's Old Power sating Galactus's hunger for that long, nothing to suggest it was hyperbole.

Galactus became addicted specifically because of what Skaar did.

http://i.imgur.com/4UwwflK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YF400H6.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Armcheddon pretty much owned Surfer in energy manipulation too. When are you going to address that?

What does the showing with Armcheddon have to do with Surfer's ability to strip power from his opponent?

Originally posted by Fiendish
Given the context of the scene and the fact that a specific timeframe is given and then reiterated, the evidence points to it not being figurative.

Has Hulk pulled off a thunderclap in less than a microsecond? While being drained?
Wouldn't you first have to show evidence of this in order for the onus to be on me to show Surfer could drain him in less time?

Surfer hasn't drained anyone in less than a microsecond AFAIK. However he did drain Skaar of his purloined Old Power pretty quickly while simultaneously sending it back down into Sakaar. The amount of Old Power inside Sakaar was stated (multiple times) to be capable of sating Galactus's hunger for 100,000 years and Skaar had drained the planet to the brink of destruction.

Multiple 100,000 years statements:
http://i.imgur.com/kof9CrL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nADITn3.jpg

Skaar's selfish draining:
http://i.imgur.com/LwPOvRn.jpg

I disagree. I'm not saying Surfer didn't perceive and break out in a nanosecond. I'm saying we can't be 100% sure of it. It could be figurative talk. I gave an example of a human using the same type of talk (with the time frame of a second). This example creates the possibility of it being figurative talk.

I didn't mean to imply that Hulk can thunderclap in less than a microsecond AFTER the bell. I meant once he decides to thunderclap and starts the motion then it will take less than a microsecond to achieve. WBH can generate forces above billions of times MORE than what it takes to shatter a planet with a single blow. Thus his hand speed would be crazy fast.

You haven't shown Surfer draining such power (not that I don't believe you).

Lastly, Bruce can go from human to WB in an instant. This means that WBH can gain energy faster than Surfer can absorb. A billionth of WBH'S power is enough to shatter a planet with a direct hit.

Originally posted by Fiendish
The frozen people looked like this.

http://i.imgur.com/v44AtvB.jpg

And when he was gone, they looked like the same as well. What's your point?

Nothing like the villain he carried out.

Uh, yeah that's the point. He could animate a frozen man, that's what he did to confuse Captain.

Yes the Fear-Eater animated one of the frozen people but the villain persona was clearly created by the Fear-Eater. The Fear-Eater involved a third party that he wasn't inside. It wasn't an illusion in that situation, it was the Fear-Eater's power.

Why wasn't it an illusion? Was anyone else affected by this "villain"? Captain being cast into an illusion is what happened. Same with Thor and Thing.

How is that not conclusive? You're just going to try and handwave that away?

Not handwave away. Just look and what happened.

Sigh, read the issue yourself and then feel silly.

Your mental gymnastics are funny.

There's nothing to contradict Sakaar's Old Power sating Galactus's hunger for that long, nothing to suggest it was hyperbole.

Of course it is. You are claiming that a planet contained FAR more power than any star or planet Galactus has ever eaten?

Galactus became addicted specifically because of what Skaar did.

http://i.imgur.com/4UwwflK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YF400H6.jpg

Have you even read your scans? All Skaar did was channel power of every Oldstrong in universe in Galactus.

A single planet could sate him for 1000 years but all that power didn't sate him but made him an addict? There is one statement which is hyperbole.

You know what it is?

What does the showing with Armcheddon have to do with Surfer's ability to strip power from his opponent?

A better energy manipulator than Surfer couldn't do it but Surfer can? Why doesn't Surfer strips the power of every being he fights?

What would it take you to understand that this Hulk is far more powerful than Surfer and Surfer has never beaten this kind of opponent on his own?

Originally posted by abhilegend
And when he was gone, they looked like the same as well. What's your point?

Uh, yeah that's the point. He could animate a frozen man, that's what he did to confuse Captain.

Why wasn't it an illusion? Was anyone else affected by this "villain"? Captain being cast into an illusion is what happened. Same with Thor and Thing.

You can see clearly the effects of the Fear-Eater's powers persisted after he had already been expelled from the Captain, so real consequences in this instance.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not handwave away. Just look and what happened.

The Fear-Eater made it clear he had to protect Surfer from the rigors of space in order to keep feeding, again real consequences.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Your mental gymnastics are funny.

You're basing you're accusation on a synopsis with cropped images, not even the full pages. If you are unable or unwilling to verify the actual source material, where do you get off claiming I edited the scan?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course it is. You are claiming that a planet contained FAR more power than any star or planet Galactus has ever eaten?

Both characters and the narration claimed that, it's reiterated in the recap.

http://i.imgur.com/Ot4qAig.jpg

That Sakaar would sate Galactus for so long is a is a primary plot point in the story arc. It's the reason Surfer was drawn there and it's why everyone kept going on about it saving countless planets and lives.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Have you even read your scans? All Skaar did was channel power of every Oldstrong in universe in Galactus.

A single planet could sate him for 1000 years but all that power didn't sate him but made him an addict? There is one statement which is hyperbole.

You know what it is?

Sakaar's Old Power had sated Galactus and he went to sleep, it had worked.

http://i.imgur.com/qNqBWKc.jpg

Skaar then changed the conditions, it was his premature awakening/overfeeding that addicted Galactus. This doesn't support your argument that it's all hyperbole.

Originally posted by abhilegend
A better energy manipulator than Surfer couldn't do it but Surfer can? Why doesn't Surfer strips the power of every being he fights?

Armchedon didn't try to to depower WBH, he just channeled his power and he didn't have any trouble doing it. This showing has no bearing on whether Surfer can strip WBH of his power or not.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What would it take you to understand that this Hulk is far more powerful than Surfer and Surfer has never beaten this kind of opponent on his own?

Surfer very well may not be able to strip WBH of his power but you're just dismissing Surfer's showings without really addressing them and bringing up tangential points to support your argument.

Bump.

WBH within a few seconds

Hulk oneshots Surfer.

Bump.