Savage Opress vs. Hero of Tython (Lightsabers only)

Originally posted by Nephthys
Who cares, he's out of his league against the HoT. She kicked the shit out of 3 of the strongest Jedi of her time while they were amped. She beat Scourge, a Sith with over 1100 kills and 300 years of experience. She's the greatest Jedi in TOR by far even in Act 3. Hell, shes called the best in Act 1. Koon is good but he wouldn't be the greatest of an era like TOR in his wildest dreams. And she continues to get better and has recently been amped by Valkorion.

Koon was distracted by his clones dying, so that evens it out. And matching someone doesn't mean you're as skilled as them. Savage is a powerful brute who gets by largely on his overwhelming physicals.

I meant he beat down Obi-Wan while he was off-guard and outflanked by Maul. When Obi-Wan got serious, we saw what he did to Savage.

You do apparently since your argument for HoT's superiority is that he has superior accolades...

Quote for HoT beating 3 of the strongest Jedi of his time that were amped?

Beating Scourge isn't as impressive as showing superiority to Plo Koon who disarmed Ventress while one of his arms was broken. This was a pre prime Ventress but she went on to defeat Fisto and Grievous ( albeit with circumstances ) and show parity with Maul despite wielding only a single blade.

No but he would go on to become one of the most powerful of all time. 😛 Also lol at HoT being the best Jedi in the ToR era being something impressive. There was Satele and Aryn Leneer as competition during the time of that statement and we don't know if that quote was referring to a specific category like power or combat effectiveness.

Well then, tell me what they've gained from Valk's amp.

He was distracted once in the fight when he had his mask ripped off of him. Matching someone while your hindered does especially when your physical power doesn't account for much against a Djem So practioner.

The scene I'm referring to takes place after Florrum and as you and I both know there were heavy circumstances favoring Kenobi in that fight.

Originally posted by Syndicate
You do apparently since your argument for HoT's superiority is that he has superior accolades...

And feats. And she's not a barely trained duelist who fights like a barbarian. The Hero has real skill and lightsaber mastery. Savage doesn't.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Quote for HoT beating 3 of the strongest Jedi of his time that were amped?

The 3 Jedi the Hero fights are stated to the "the strongest", "most powerful and most resolute Jedi in the Order". After Vitiate turned them they were amped by his power and states it in dialogue options: "my master gave me all the strength I need to finish this". There are more but I can't be ****ed to find them.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Beating Scourge isn't as impressive as showing superiority to Plo Koon who disarmed Ventress while one of his arms was broken. This was a pre prime Ventress but she went on to defeat Fisto and Grievous ( albeit with circumstances ) and show parity with Maul despite wielding only a single blade.

Yes, it is. Scourge would also easily defeat Koon. Ventress doing things when she improves has no baring on Koons feat.

Originally posted by Syndicate
No but he would go on to become one of the most powerful of all time. 😛 Also lol at HoT being the best Jedi in the ToR era being something impressive. There was Satele and Aryn Leneer as competition during the time of that statement and we don't know if that quote was referring to a specific category like power or combat effectiveness.

So? The Hero is pretty much in the top 10 of all time. Koon could be anywhere. One of the 100 most powerful? 1000? A million. Irrelevant. Koon has nothing on the Hero who's resisted a Dark Side God's power, beaten Vitiate on a nexus, killed Revan and defeated Arcann. She's more powerful than the Barsen'thor who smashes through house-sized blast doors casually while weakened. The Hero has many quotes, so I'm gonna say it was all of the above. She's stated to be their greatest soldier, their greatest champion against the darkness, the most powerful felt, the strongest met etc etc.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Well then, tell me what they've gained from Valk's amp.

Enough to go from being overwhelmed by Arcann with back up to defeating him.

Originally posted by Syndicate
He was distracted once in the fight when he had his mask ripped off of him. Matching someone while your hindered does especially when your physical power doesn't account for much against a Djem So practioner.

Right. He was distracted at the point when Savage beats him. Gosh, I wonder is that has anything to do with it..... Koon using Djem So doesn't mean he's as strong as Savage. He isn't. Savage blatantly didn't outskill him, thus the feat is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Syndicate
The scene I'm referring to takes place after Florrum and as you and I both know there were heavy circumstances favoring Kenobi in that fight.

I also know that having to fight two people at once is a significant enough disadvantage to make up for any advantages Kenobi had.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And feats. And she's not a barely trained duelist who fights like a barbarian. The Hero has real skill and lightsaber mastery. Savage doesn't.

The 3 Jedi the Hero fights are stated to the "the strongest", "most powerful and most resolute Jedi in the Order". After Vitiate turned them they were amped by his power and states it in dialogue options: "my master gave me all the strength I need to finish this". There are more but I can't be ****ed to find them.

Yes, it is. Scourge would also easily defeat Koon. Ventress doing things when she improves has no baring on Koons feat.

So? The Hero is pretty much in the top 10 of all time. Koon could be anywhere. One of the 100 most powerful? 1000? A million. Irrelevant. Koon has nothing on the Hero who's resisted a Dark Side God's power, beaten Vitiate on a nexus, killed Revan and defeated Arcann. She's more powerful than the Barsen'thor who smashes through house-sized blast doors casually while weakened. The Hero has many quotes, so I'm gonna say it was all of the above. She's stated to be their greatest soldier, their greatest champion against the darkness, the most powerful felt, the strongest met etc etc.

Enough to go from being overwhelmed by Arcann with back up to defeating him.

Right. He was distracted at the point when Savage beats him. Gosh, I wonder is that has anything to do with it..... Koon using Djem So doesn't mean he's as strong as Savage. He isn't. Savage blatantly didn't outskill him, thus the feat is irrelevant.

I also know that having to fight two people at once is a significant enough disadvantage to make up for any advantages Kenobi had.

Originally posted by Nephthys

killed Revan

lmfao

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He lived a long time ago which means he's automatically super-powerful Because he has better feats and accolades, I guess.

I think the struck text captures the essence of Neph's butthurt quite well.

Originally posted by Syndicate
You do apparently since your argument for HoT's superiority is that he has superior accolades...

Quote for HoT beating 3 of the strongest Jedi of his time that were amped?

Beating Scourge isn't as impressive as showing superiority to Plo Koon who disarmed Ventress while one of his arms was broken. This was a pre prime Ventress but she went on to defeat Fisto and Grievous ( albeit with circumstances ) and show parity with Maul despite wielding only a single blade.

No but he would go on to become one of the most powerful of all time. 😛 Also lol at HoT being the best Jedi in the ToR era being something impressive. There was Satele and Aryn Leneer as competition during the time of that statement and we don't know if that quote was referring to a specific category like power or combat effectiveness.

Well then, tell me what they've gained from Valk's amp.

He was distracted once in the fight when he had his mask ripped off of him. Matching someone while your hindered does especially when your physical power doesn't account for much against a Djem So practioner.

The scene I'm referring to takes place after Florrum and as you and I both know there were heavy circumstances favoring Kenobi in that fight.

He obviously would to have shown superiority to Koon as he did. What feats? I'm dying to hear of these lightsaber feats HoT possess.

Fair enough in regards to the Jedi's strength though of course we don't know how they compare to the standard Jedi. The quote you provided showing Vitiate's amping them is unfortunately not up to snuff. You master giving you strength can simply be referring to training or the person's own loyalty and the idea of successfully accomplishing a task set by said Master.

It does as a pre prime Ventress should be comparable to her prime, near prime self. I believe that her defeat of Fisto occurred before her fight with Koon actually. Also Scourge beating around 3 Sith a year for 300 years doesn't mean jack sh!t.

Oh really? Can I get the quote that states HoT is in the top 10? 😛

"a Dark Side God's"

Holy sh!t... You're legitimately deluded.

The Hero beat a weakened Vitiate who was restricted to Temple busting power and has absolutely 0 lightsaber feats. That's essentially PoD Bane without any skill feats. Not somebody I'd put above Koon.

"killed Revan"

Citation needed.

"and defeated Arcann."

Citation needed.

Quote for HoT being more powerful then Thor?

Don't care how many quotes they have unless you can provide them.

Same as above. Was unaware HoT defeated Arcann. Need the circumstances to their fight.

I agree that Koon's distraction was what allowed Savage to remove his mask but that doesn't account for the rest of the fight where Savage was being fired upon and Plo Koon was NOT distracted.

Granted Savage is stronger but I don't see why that would mean much in a fight where Savage's strength advantage wasn't emphasized at any point and logically shouldn't have been since both were strength oriented fighters.

And I'm saying Savage improved between Florrum and his next encounter with Obi Wan.

Dark Side God's power

Neph I'm not going to lie. This line literally made me cringe and worry for your mental health. Seek help please.

He's talking about Sel Makor, lmfao. Learn 2 SWTOR. 🙂

Legit next thread should be Synd's Positions vs Neph's Arguments.

Originally posted by Syndicate
[b]Dark Side God's power

Neph I'm not going to lie. This line literally made me cringe and worry for your mental health. Seek help please. [/B]

Like Skills said, I'm referring to Sel Makor. It is a non-corporeal Dark Side entity born from the collective darkside of an entire species (or two species, although they used to be the same species.... You know what, it isn't important). The Hero walked into the heart of it's power, which is so incredibly corrupted by the darkside that even powerful Sith can't go near it without going insane, and resisted it's direct influence. Sel Makor is powerful enough to keep Vitiate captive, fuel a planet-wide madness ritual, create beings out of thin air and was stated to be a threat to all life in the galaxy.

God-like is an apt term.

Ah thought you were referring to Vitiate as he was when HoT defeated him.

All life in the Galaxy? Nah. All of Existence.

Alright that's enough debating to last me a month. I'll be off for the rest of the day.

Ciao.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Legit next thread should be Synd's Positions vs Neph's Arguments.

Judge by rate of resultant cancer cell replication. 🙂

Oh my god you quoted yourself. This is a nightmare to respond to.

Originally posted by Syndicate
He obviously would to have shown superiority to Koon as he did. What feats? I'm dying to hear of these lightsaber feats HoT possess.

No, he wouldn't. Savages technique is far inferior to a true lightsaber master. He's barely trained in lightsaber techniques and is far outclassed by a legendarily skilled duelist like the Hero.

Beating Bengal Morr with a practice saber, beating Praven, beating Angral, beating Scourge, blitzing multiple Sith at once, pressing Arcann's nearly unbreakable defenses, beating Arcann. Not that you understand a word of that.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Fair enough in regards to the Jedi's strength though of course we don't know how they compare to the standard Jedi. The quote you provided showing Vitiate's amping them is unfortunately not up to snuff. You master giving you strength can simply be referring to training or the person's own loyalty and the idea of successfully accomplishing a task set by said Master.

Well we do, because they're among the strongest Jedi alive and have been amped. So obviously they're far above standard bloody Jedi. And I don't give a shit if you don't think its up to snuff. One of us has played the game and seen all dialogue variations and it ain't you. Its said a few times directly.

Originally posted by Syndicate
It does as a pre prime Ventress should be comparable to her prime, near prime self. I believe that her defeat of Fisto occurred before her fight with Koon actually. Also Scourge beating around 3 Sith a year for 300 years doesn't mean jack sh!t.

No, it shouldn't.

Scourge > Koon.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Oh really? Can I get the quote that states HoT is in the top 10? 😛

TBH according to Valkorion the HoT has surpassed the Jedi altogether.

Originally posted by Syndicate
"a Dark Side God's"

Holy sh!t... You're legitimately deluded.

The Hero beat a weakened Vitiate who was restricted to Temple busting power and has absolutely 0 lightsaber feats. That's essentially PoD Bane without any skill feats. Not somebody I'd put above Koon.

Responded to already.

Originally posted by Syndicate
"killed Revan"

Citation needed.

The HoT is the obvious main character who went through the expansions and is the Outlander.

Originally posted by Syndicate
"and defeated Arcann."

Citation needed.

Talk to Freshestslice. After the amp from Vitiate, the Hero is going to defeat Arcann. It's been datamined.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Quote for HoT being more powerful then Thor?

Don't care how many quotes they have unless you can provide them.

“The Force is strong in you. Stronger than I've seen in decades.”
“You are stronger than any Jedi I have known”
“You are the Jedi's finest.”
“You are our greatest warrior… and our best hope."
"Warren was the order's greatest soldier in his day--now that role falls to you."
"We've lost one of our noblest Masters, but in his place stands a Jedi without equal."
"But he also forged our greatest weapon against the darkness."
"His (Vitiate) power is growing. Only you can stop him."
"I'm glad to finally meet you in person. They say you're the greatest Jedi the order has seen in generations."
"You will face the Emperor alone. Only you can resist his direct influence".

Originally posted by Syndicate
I agree that Koon's distraction was what allowed Savage to remove his mask but that doesn't account for the rest of the fight where Savage was being fired upon and Plo Koon was NOT distracted.

Savage is only shown being fired upon in one instance, where he reflects the bolts back and kills the troops, distracting Koon enough for him to win.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Granted Savage is stronger but I don't see why that would mean much in a fight where Savage's strength advantage wasn't emphasized at any point and logically shouldn't have been since both were strength oriented fighters.

Savage being stronger would given him the undeniable advantage if they are both strength orientated fighters. Duh.

Originally posted by Syndicate
And I'm saying Savage improved between Florrum and his next encounter with Obi Wan.

Next encounter? Obi-Wan cut his arm off and that was the last they fought iirc.

Ok I'm done talking to you now.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Judge by rate of resultant cancer cell replication. 🙂

The Hero would butcher Opress, yeah.

I'd almost forgotten about this.Will need to type up a response. :>

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The Hero would butcher Opress, yeah.

Originally posted by Emperordmb

Emp I don't understand your sudden TOR wank.