Originally posted by JKBart
pre-Nathema Vitiate: NJO Jacen Solo tier
Lmao, your troll persona actually has him lower than I do. 🙂
I'd put him on Dooku's level (in raw power).
post-Nathema Vitiate: LotF Jacen Solo tier
I'd say a little above Vader.
novel Vitiate: TPM+ Palpatine
Somewhat below Caedus.
SWTOR Vitiate: DE+ Palpatine
= Caedus.
post-Ziost Vitiate/Valkorion: any iteration is basically above any mortal Force user, but still beneath The Ones.
= Plagueis.
In either case the primary goal should be to discuss pre-Nathema Vitiate and not just talk about peak-Vitiate again.
@NewGuy01 Yeah, you'd expect him to have grown drastically stronger after such a ritual, but it's difficult to buy that without either making his post-Nathema self a weakling - which doesn't fit with his backstory of Force severing and driving mad a sith lord when he was 10 - or his post-Nathema self some sort of Abeloth-tier god, which doesn't fit with his getting disarmed by Meetra on a dark side nexus.
A Dooku - > Vader jump is an underperformance but still impressive enough to be believable. Vitiate was clearly more prodigious than Dooku, but then again, Palpatine was more prodigious than Anakin; potential seems to manifest at inconsistent times.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
@NewGuy01 Yeah, you'd expect him to have grown drastically stronger after such a ritual, but it's difficult to buy that without either making his post-Nathema self a weakling - which doesn't fit with his backstory of Force severing and driving mad a sith lord when he was 10 - or his post-Nathema self some sort of Abeloth-tier god, which doesn't fit with his getting disarmed by Meetra on a dark side nexus.
Tbch, Vitiate is a maddeningly inconsistent character.
Originally posted by Petrus
After absorbing the strength of thousands Sith Lords? How so?
Well for one thing, he very clearly doesn't possess the power of thousands of Sith Lords, or anything remotely within that range, so through making that observation we can conclude that the ritual didn't give him the power of thousands of Sith Lords. Fairly straightforward, I think.
Building off of that idea, I don't think the Sith Lords themselves were an overwhelmingly relevant aspect of the ritual aside from the fact that Vitiate needed their power to perform it. Furthermore, the purpose of the ritual as far was we know was to extend Vitiate's life indefinitely--the fact that it gave him deity-like power was probably an afterthought. A welcome consequence, if anything.
Originally posted by NewGuy01👆 I agree that he transcended more in other ways than raw power. Otherwise, his backstory is just too OP for SWTOR or the novel to make sense.
Well for one thing, he very clearly doesn't possess the power of thousands of Sith Lords, or anything remotely within that range, so through making that observation we can conclude that the ritual didn't give him the power of thousands of Sith Lords. Fairly straightforward, I think.Building off of that idea, I don't think the Sith Lords themselves were an overwhelmingly relevant aspect of the ritual aside from the fact that Vitiate needed their power to perform it. Furthermore, the purpose of the ritual as far was we know was to extend Vitiate's life indefinitely--the fact that it gave him deity-like power was probably an afterthought. A welcome consequence, if anything.
Of course it boosted his power. Draining like that almost always does, and he became the most powerful sith up to that point with the ritual, so a power boost is confirmed. The point is that immortality was a bigger part of his ambition, and he overall ascended as a force user imo. Like Newguy said, he gained deity-like features.
Hmm. I just came across a quote which claimed that Sadow and Kressh were the most powerful Sith Lords of their time. Made before Vitiate's conception, of course, but as things aren't passively retconned, I still take it as a valid canonical accolade.
With that, I probably have pre-Nathema Vitiate somewhere around Vader-tier, perhaps just a bit below. It's hard to give him an exact placement, since he not only didn't have the ritual boosting his power, but he also didn't have over a millennium of studying the dark side to boost his power either. But then, that's clearly a gap that isn't nearly as big as you'd expect it to be.
Originally posted by SiniousI'm sorry, but no.
Of course it boosted his power. Draining like that almost always does, and he became the most powerful sith up to that point with the ritual, so a power boost is confirmed. The point is that immortality was a bigger part of his ambition, and he overall ascended as a force user imo. Like Newguy said, he gained deity-like features.
Vitiate admits by that point that he couldn't take Ragnos.
Never brings up Sadow or Kressh tho.