Miscellaneous Duels

Prime versions unless specified otherwise. Morals off.

1. Ulic Qel-Droma vs the Hero of Tython, in the ruins of the Jedi Temple on Coruscant

2. The Emperor's Wrath II vs Obi-Wan Kenobi, in the Dark Council Chamber on Korriban

3. Anakin Solo vs Ben Skywalker, on the 10m x 10m rooftop of a Coruscant skyscraper

4. Darth Sion (one life) vs The Grand Inquisitor, on Malachor V's surface

5. Naga Sadow vs RotS post-Mustafar Darth Vader, in the Tomb of Naga Sadow on Yavin IV

6. Asajj Ventress & General Grievous vs Count Dooku, in Dooku's escape hangar on Geonosis

7. Vrook Lamar vs Revan Scourge, in the Rebuilt Jedi Enclave's Courtyard on Dantooine

8. Qui-Gon Jinn vs Corran Horn, in the Theed Hangar

9. Jaina Solo vs Darth Malak, in the heart of the Star Forge

10. Exar Kun vs DE Luke Skywalker, in the Royal Palace of Onderon

Interesting set of fights.

1. Unsure but leaning Ulic
2. Unsure but leaning Obi-Wan
3. I don't know enough about Anakin, but from what I've heard I feel like he would take it.
4. I'm honestly leaning the Grand Inquisitor tbh
5. Vader... right after being burned up and suited? Naga Sadow lol.
6. Interesting, but I feel like Dooku possesses enough of a Force advantage to take it.
7. Scourge's imperial guard feat honestly impresses me considerably more than anything those meh council members have ever done. Scourge should take this one.
8. My knowledge on Corran is lacking, but based on information I've seen about Corran recently, I'd probably side with him.
9. Is this SF Malak?
10. Idfk

Might as well try and start a discussion.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Interesting set of fights.

Well, that's what I was going for.

1. Unsure but leaning Ulic

Hmm... why?

2. Unsure but leaning Obi-Wan

Interesting... even on Korriban?

3. I don't know enough about Anakin, but from what I've heard I feel like he would take it.

Alright. This is Apocalypse Ben, of course.

4. I'm honestly leaning the Grand Inquisitor tbh

Why?

5. Vader... right after being burned up and suited? Naga Sadow lol.

I don't mean right after the operation, lol. There's that final scene where Vader watches the construction of the Death Star with Sidious - that version, basically. Or the one at the start of Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader. 19BBY Vader.

6. Interesting, but I feel like Dooku possesses enough of a Force advantage to take it.

Perhaps. Keep in mind that he can't dodge Grievous' blows with the same level of ease that he did against S3 Savage/Ventress, and in that fight, Dooku's Sith mastery "barely gave him the edge". Grievous can also block Lightning on his blades, but he is more susceptible to telekinesis than Savage. It's really a completely different fight to the one against S3 Savage and Ventress.

7. Scourge's imperial guard feat honestly impresses me considerably more than anything those meh council members have ever done. Scourge should take this one.

Combatively, they're fairly lacking in combat feats, yeah - mostly beating fodder and apparently perfecting Forms IV-VII and the Force Forms. That said, Vrook can place the Exile in Stasis against her will and TK the Exile + two party members against a stone wall hard enough to stun them for a few seconds. He's also supposedly obtained the "pinnacle of Force Mastery" and can use Heal mid-battle.

8. My knowledge on Corran is lacking, but based on information I've seen about Corran recently, I'd probably side with him.

What information?

9. Is this SF Malak?

Well, I said it takes place on the Star Forge, so... yes? The point is that Jaina gets weakened and Malak amped, just because Jaina would win pretty damn decisively in a neutral environment.

10. Idfk

Elaborate.

1. How exactly long can Tython last without tiring in a duel? Ulic's stamina and defense will be an issue, as he can pretty soundly withstand Exar's powerful offense. Ulic being on par with Exar Kun elevates him above Hero in terms of skill, there isn't much of a force advantage either way so I'll go with Ulic here for a hard fought majority

2. Wrath has a power advantage and will probably just ragdoll Kenobi. Kenobi's powerful in his own right and slightly more skilled, but he's got a poor track record against defending himself from darksiders (Ventress, Savage, Maul, Dooku have all affected him with telekinesis). Wrath has comparable telekinetic feats and with the amp Kenobi has little chance of victory.

3. Probably Anakin given his enormous growth in just a few months in the Vong war, going from slaughtering scores of Vong Slave soldiers/fighting evenly with Jacen to slaughtering scores of Vong soldiers/Voxyn. Ben's good but his cousin seems to have greater inherent power in the force.

4. Either way though Sion probably has the greater chance due to constantly coming back. If the GI can figure out to scatter his body parts with telekinesis he has a chance, and obviously he's more skilled than Sion.

5. Vader probably stomps. I've never seen Sadow as a great duelist and his force feats take place with meditation, sure he's capable of sorcery but without the feats I'll back Vader

6. I'll fall back to how Dooku fought Ventress/Vos in Dark disciple, he routinely used lightning/sent them both flying with telekinesis. He's skilled enough to engage both, and he can BFR Grievous with a force push and then kill Ventress with the force and outduel his other student. Dooku should take this for a majority

7. No idea, probably Vrook because beating an old past prime Sith lord/trainees and losing to droids really sucks for Scourge

8. They're about even in skill and there isn't much point trying to go into their overall dueling feats, seeing as Corran would die to Maul, would kill Anoon Bondara, and can outspar TPM Kenobi/beat Xanatos. There isn't a skill gap so much as Corran's illusions will take Jinn out with morals off. Corran wins

9. Morals off Jaina immediately outduels Malak, even if Malak is more powerful Jaina can easily no sell his lightning and she recovered rapidly from telekinetic blasts from Abeloth while exhausted/injured she can take his TK. Jaina's vastly superior to Malak in skill, and that clinches it for me. Jaina was able to fight multiple Sith on Dromund Kaas, which is a potent nexus on its own so the Star forge might be an inconvenience but the skill gap is again lopsided in her favor.

10. Wasn't Onderon's palace under the influence of the darkside because of Nadd's remains being stored there? Exar can probably utilize those energies for blast spam, and Luke can deflect some of them (Deflecting turbolasers) but not all. If its not a nexus then Luke outduels Exar in a solid match, as nothing Exar's done in terms of unamped feats really compares to Luke

@Carthage -

1. He's probably got extremely high stamina but not beyond Ulic's. Dueling for hours against Kun requires a stupidly high level of endurance.

4. Sion has one life here, and he does have access to Drain and superior Force powers.

5. Even this version of Vader stomps?

6. If he can do that, he'll probably win for a majority, but I doubt it'll be for more than 7-8/10.

7. lol

9. Does the Star Forge nexus (going both ways here) not change anything?

10. Nadd's remains were stored on Dxun, so no. But Onderon was poisoned with the dark side thanks to Ommin, so technically it is a nexus - just not as strong as Nadd's tomb. There were some Sith artifacts in the museum, which was a part of the Royal Palace.

1. Outlander, undoubtedly.

2. Wrath, in an excellent fight.

3. Probably Anakin.

4. I dunno who's more trash, but Sion prolly wins.

5. Naga Sadow, surely.

6. Count Dooku

7. Scourge scoffs at Vrook, LEL.

8. Ehh, Corran.

9. Not sure, but probably Jaina in one hell of a fight.

10. Exar Kun.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Hmm... why?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Interesting... even on Korriban?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Why?

Originally posted by SunRazer
I don't mean right after the operation, lol. There's that final scene where Vader watches the construction of the Death Star with Sidious - that version, basically. Or the one at the start of Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader. 19BBY Vader.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Perhaps. Keep in mind that he can't dodge Grievous' blows with the same level of ease that he did against S3 Savage/Ventress, and in that fight, Dooku's Sith mastery "barely gave him the edge". Grievous can also block Lightning on his blades, but he is more susceptible to telekinesis than Savage. It's really a completely different fight to the one against S3 Savage and Ventress.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Combatively, they're fairly lacking in combat feats, yeah - mostly beating fodder and apparently perfecting Forms IV-VII and the Force Forms. That said, Vrook can place the Exile in Stasis against her will and TK the Exile + two party members against a stone wall hard enough to stun them for a few seconds. He's also supposedly obtained the "pinnacle of Force Mastery" and can use Heal mid-battle.

Originally posted by SunRazer
What information?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, I said it takes place on the Star Forge, so... yes? The point is that Jaina gets weakened and Malak amped, just because Jaina would win pretty damn decisively in a neutral environment.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Elaborate.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
A bit more impressed with matching Kun than I am any of HOT's dueling feats or accolades.

Fair enough.

I had not really considered Korriban tbh, though I am at a loss for how to quantify it seeing as I generally make it a point avoid making nexus based arguments.

Well, the nexus can be overrated at times but it's definitely a factor here.

I feel like the Inquisitors are underrated tbh given some of their feats, and if the Grand Inquisitor is indeed intended to be the best of them, plus his broad lightsaber knowledge and TKing Kanan (Who already has some pretty impressive TK), I'm if anything slightly more impressed with the GI, though if Sion has anything I'm forgetting feel free to let me know.

Not too sure what you're missing. Sion's one of the most powerful Sith Lords and has been described as an "ultra-powerful monster of the dark side", Crushed post-Korriban Exile and then used Drain in conjunction with Force Lightning from two of his Sith lackeys to almost kill her. He has access to the Sith Assassins' leeching technique which he uses to feed off his opponent's strength and receive amps accordingly. And according to Avellone, Sion literally holds his body together with telekinesis. That's about it.

Could you specifically note what fights/feats are to be attributed to Vader at this point in time?

Well, DL: TRoDV goes into 18BBY, and we're only using 19BBY Vader here. So he has the accolades which confirms that he's more powerful than Anakin, he has his feats from Lords of the Sith and the early parts of DL: TRoDV.

It is different, but I feel like an opponent he's very familiar with dueling wise, plus an opponent he's been shown to basically stomp whenever they duel, plus the fact that Grievous has no Force barrier and Dooku holds a pretty sizeable force edge over Grievous. It certainly wouldn't be easy, but Dooku could pull it off.

Fair enough.

How far was this into the game?

Well, Vrook placing the Exile in Stasis is when she comes to meet the Council to receive their Judgment, so that happens after she's travelled to all of the planets, and right before she returns to Telos to fight Atris. Fairly late in the game.

The other feat with the Exile's party happens when you visit Dantooine for the first time, which can be varying different times, but the Prima Guide has Dantooine after all of the other planets except Korriban (and M4-78), if that's an indication. So about mid-way into the game.

I've heard that Jacen admitted to being an inferior duelist to Corran in the Unifying Force or something along those lines.

Corran did spar evenly with Saba Sebatyne for a while, but he kind of lost to Shedao Shai until he used Trakata. Can't remember Jacen admitting inferiority.

hmmm, that is interesting. Does Malak get his regen/extra lives/replenishing/Jedi knight heal packs?

Let's say yes, but Jaina can destroy them before he uses them.

Between Luke's circumstantial defeat of Sidious and Kun's circumstantial defeat of Luke, I'm honestly not sure where to begin with this fight.

Maybe a skill/power/physicals break-down?

Originally posted by SunRazer
@Carthage -

1. He's probably got extremely high stamina but not beyond Ulic's. Dueling for hours against Kun requires a stupidly high level of endurance.

4. Sion has one life here, and he does have access to Drain and superior Force powers.

5. Even this version of Vader stomps?

6. If he can do that, he'll probably win for a majority, but I doubt it'll be for more than 7-8/10.

7. lol

9. Does the Star Forge nexus (going both ways here) not change anything?

10. Nadd's remains were stored on Dxun, so no. But Onderon was poisoned with the dark side thanks to Ommin, so technically it is a nexus - just not as strong as Nadd's tomb. There were some Sith artifacts in the museum, which was a part of the Royal Palace.

1. Ulic's stamina and slight skill edge seems like the tipping point for me.

4. What are his feats with drain? But yeah he's probably more familiar while fighting on darkside environments coupled with his regen, he most likely wins.

5. If this is hindered Vader he's still a relentless and powerful driving force as a duelist. I don't think Sadow can tank his blows which were straining Kenobi for more than a few exchanges, and if he was pressing back Kenobi for a marathon duel Sadow probably dies rapidly

6. You should re-read the duel he had with Vos/Ventress, he was literally ragdolling them both at once and separating them with his powers. It was a masterful use of force abilities, I can see him replicating that for a majority tbh

9. Dromund Kaas was a potent nexus and she was still capable of fighting faster than Sith could perceive.

10. mmm

Is 1 The Outlander? Because he's kinda sorta > Arcann.

Oh I thought you meant Knightfall Vader, RODV/Pre TFU Vader still has some amazing force feats, though.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, the nexus can be overrated at times but it's definitely a factor here.

Not too sure what you're missing. Sion's one of the most powerful Sith Lords and has been described as an "ultra-powerful monster of the dark side", Crushed post-Korriban Exile and then used Drain in conjunction with Force Lightning from two of his Sith lackeys to almost kill her. He has access to the Sith Assassins' leeching technique which he uses to feed off his opponent's strength and receive amps accordingly. And according to Avellone, Sion literally holds his body together with telekinesis. That's about it.

Well, DL: TRoDV goes into 18BBY, and we're only using 19BBY Vader here. So he has the accolades which confirms that he's more powerful than Anakin, he has his feats from Lords of the Sith and the early parts of DL: TRoDV.

Well, Vrook placing the Exile in Stasis is when she comes to meet the Council to receive their Judgment, so that happens after she's travelled to all of the planets, and right before she returns to Telos to fight Atris. Fairly late in the game.

The other feat with the Exile's party happens when you visit Dantooine for the first time, which can be varying different times, but the Prima Guide has Dantooine after all of the other planets except Korriban (and M4-78), if that's an indication. So about mid-way into the game.

Corran did spar evenly with Saba Sebatyne for a while, but he kind of lost to Shedao Shai until he used Trakata. Can't remember Jacen admitting inferiority.

Let's say yes, but Jaina can destroy them before he uses them.

Maybe a skill/power/physicals break-down?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Is 1 The Outlander? Because he's kinda sorta > Arcann.

I was actually going for vanilla HoT.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Fair enough. Offensive Force feats for Wrath?

Well, he disintegrated a giant blast door with the help of some loser Jedi. He also Choked Vitiate's body on Voss, but that was with Vitiate's consent. He's also instantly snapped necks/Choked various fodder characters.

How much of this is cut content because I quite frankly don't take it seriously.

Just the Sion Crushing/Draining the Exile. The rest of it is from vanilla/external sources.

If he's more powerful than Anakin at that point he should win. If he's still far below his former self he loses.

Not sure what you mean by the last sentence, but yes, his Force power > Anakin's.

How much, if any, of that is cut content?

None.

I'll have to check tomorrow when I'm less tired.

Okay.

Probably Jaina.

I guess she's just that much better, huh?

Yeah but the problem is I'm not entirely sure where I have DE Luke.

Alright then.

Wrath also casually drops a massive crate mid game IIRC.

Yeah, there's that. Not as good as the door, though.

Kenobi's force defenses just suck

@Skillz, where do you have Scourge, tbh? I mean, this is novel Scourge.

It's Novel Scourge, but this is freaking Vrook Lamar. Member of the most pathetic Jedi Council ever. He gets stamped out by a Sith Lord as prodigious as Scourge.

Novel Scourge on par with Traya in Force? It's a bit late for April Fools jokes, don't you think?