Kreia or Vergere?

Which is the better character and why? Discuss.

I won't vote yet - they're both very interesting, so I'll wait to see how the discussion plays out.

It's difficult, tbh.

I found Vergere's outlooks more interesting, simply because they were much easier to swallow. What Kreia actually manages to achieve, and the background she comes from makes her holistically a more interesting character for me though. If Vergere was actually in better written stories I might like her more mmm

Vergere was more of a guide than kreia, who was much more influential. Kreia was such a downer though. I personally enjoyed vergere's unique view of the force and TUF was one of the best sw books I've read.

Vergere, for me. It probably helps that she stars in better stories than the trainwreck that was KOTOR II; then again, should Traya get points for still managing to shine regardless?

Kreia being the lone turd-log among the fetid shitswamp that is KOTOR2 doesn't really mean all that much to me.

Just hinging the conversation on their philosophies, Vergere has a titanic advantage over Kreia. Multiple full-length novels have explored it, most obviously Traitor, which is what you get when you put a philosophy textbook and a regular Star Wars story in a blender. It's a damn good read. This coming from someone who thinks Vergere's worldview is ultimately bullshit. But it's well-written bullshit all the same.

I switch between the two, Vergere has a much more grounded way of challenging the existing views of the Force. On the other hand Kreia has some truly brilliant dialogue, ignoring the Sith Hermetica, she blows Vergere out of the water with her wisdom.

Wisdom? lol

And Vergere doesn't have brilliant dialogue? I strongly encourage you to reread Traitor.

I think kreia plays the invisible hand much better and more potently than vergere.

I have read it, but some Kreia dialogue nuggets, that you need stupidly high Wisdom to converse through, are great.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I have read it, but some Kreia dialogue nuggets, that you need stupidly high Wisdom to converse through, are great.

Got links? Or snippets?

Vergere, she never devolved into some killing the Force shit.

If we forgot about the "killing the Force part", who's better? I want to see if this changes opinions.

The only thing that bothers me about the Force killing bullshit is that it was ever treated seriously by the characters, writers, and fans. It should instead be treated like any modern-day jihadist. No podunk terrorist will ever be able to slay the Dragondestroy America. Doesn't mean they're not dangerous, though.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Got links? Or snippets?

One example being: https://youtu.be/s5w9LBcYu5g

Vergere. Her plan of turning Jacen Solo to the dark side, was amazing process. Kreia was just a pissy old lady

Which she had Lumiya's help in doing.

Kreia trained Revan, the Exile, and Nihilus and manufactured the fall of both Force using orders. Paving the way for a reborn Jedi Order and a rebuilt Galactic Republic, restored and founded by her apprentice, which became the apex of the Old Republic and Jedi Order in terms of strength. This gave them the strength to hold off the Sith Empire.

Originally posted by AncientPower
One example being: https://youtu.be/s5w9LBcYu5g

That's not bad at all, but I'm not convinced that the Avellone/Kreia combo is any match for Stover/Vergere. There's nothing in that video that is especially groundbreaking.

Temp, what do you think of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VvS5MLnG0Y

Most people think this is either a terribly long-winded, useless monologue, or an amazing speech that sums up the game.

Either way, you have to admit that Kreia's voice actor, Sara Kestelman, was brilliant.

Anyway, these videos manage to capture most of Kreia's greatest moments in the game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MXXjX1TeIk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlgUFQXbXcM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrZzNbtjt7A