Originally posted by Emperordmb
Aside from Taalon at the very beginning of his transformation matching Luke near evenly in combat when Luke was trying to kill him?
Quick one. Citation, please? Just an example retort however... Caedus - in spite of fanatic masturbations - was not close to Luke in power or martial fighting. Yet, he did give Luke a hard - albeit not close - fight, when his once-beloved uncle was attempting to kill him. You'll have to excuse me if I'm not exactly balled over by the fact someone can challenge Luke. It happens more than it should.
Prior to him developing power enough to shift the balance of the Force with his existence
Was it the sort of shift in power, that not only boosted it's catalytic hosts, but also dulled an entire Jedi Order's ability draw from the Force? Or was it likely to be a sprinkling of hyperbole, stemming from a nature that's been championed in lesser avatars - like Revan.
drag around Luke with TK and
I will ask what I once asked a member on CV. How does this make him better than Luke?
move too fast for Luke to see? [/B]
Again, I will ask what I once asked a member on CV. How does this make him better than Luke?
Forgive my Syndicating, I'm on my phone:
"Luke and Ben want to keep Allana’s true identity secret, which forces a fight with the Sith Lords. Both Skywalkers narrowly escape with their lives."-The Essential Reader's Companion
The fight itself ended with Luke and Ben fleeing after the fight ended up as Luke and Ben (stabbed by a parang) vs Taalon (with cracked ribs), Vestara (with a dislocated shoulder), and Gavar (with a missing arm). If one or two wounded Ben Skywalker level combatants can make up the difference between very-beginning-of-transformation Taalon and Luke enough for Luke to be on the losing end, I'd say the two are pretty on par.
"Had they flickered or shifted as Taalon moved his head, they might have been no more than reflections of the Pydyrian sun. But they remained steady, shining out from the darkness of the High Lord’s soul, and Luke knewwhy the Force was so full of portent that morning, why he could feel the Balance shifting toward shadow."-Fate of the Jedi: Vortex
Seems pretty significant to me, especially since balance is capitalized (assuming there was no error in my RT making or text file of Vortex).
Considering Luke was expecting a TK attack, that Luke managed to right his bodily orientation but not fully free himself, I'd say it's a pretty impressive showing of TK effectiveness against Luke. Plus it's additional power developed from a point where Sarasu was fighting on par with Luke.
I'd say moving faster than someone could perceive would give one a considerable edge in combat, especially since without it, Taalon was still fighting Luke pretty on par.
DMB - Forgive my Syndicating, I'm on my phone:
And I hope you'll forgive me for the delayed response. It may surprise you to know that I have somewhat of a life outside of forum sparring. However, it starts and ends on a Friday night, and doesn't extend much past that. Then you can consider Saturday morning's 'collateral damage'... wherein my serotonin levels attempt to rebalance themselves after a hammering from Mandy's finest - and purest - powdered-euphoria. Moving on.
Luke and Ben want to keep Allana’s true identity secret, which forces a fight with the Sith Lords. Both Skywalker's narrowly escape with their lives."-The Essential Reader's Companion - The fight itself ended with Luke and Ben fleeing after the fight ended up as Luke and Ben (stabbed by a parang) vs Taalon (with cracked ribs), Vestara (with a dislocated shoulder), and Gavar (with a missing arm). If one or two wounded Ben Skywalker level combatants can make up the difference between very-beginning-of-transformation Taalon and Luke enough for Luke to be on the losing end, I'd say the two are pretty on par.
This isn't helpful to me. The real fight happened in one of Troy Denning's famous monstrosities and probably spanned at least a page. Now, unlike some of the more delusive posters, I will not claim to have read the entire book other than a few excerpts. But it would be good to see the primary source material on the matter. Because that, I believe, is where my questions will be answered. More specifically, what part of the novel suggests a retreat? Where is it implied to be a retreat based on inferior fighting ability, and what circumstances were they fighting under? I hope you can see why a one-sentence summary looses value.
"Had they flickered or shifted as Taalon moved his head, they might have been no more than reflections of the Pydyrian sun. But they remained steady, shining out from the darkness of the High Lord’s soul, and Luke knew why the Force was so full of portent that morning, why he could feel the Balance shifting toward shadow."-Fate of the Jedi: Vortex. Seems pretty significant to me.
It's fine to say it seems significant, but you're being far too general and perhaps a bit ambiguous. So rather than promoting the feat above it's level with a loose statement, let's tighten the screws on what this means for your argument. First of all, I generally don't like to re-hash past allegations, but I believe this is another attempt to equate Taalon's 'unbalancing' with the unprecedented Force shift catalyzed by Sheev and Hego. Considering that you've pressed this idea more than once, DMB, I can't see harm in rebutting it. Need I remind you, what the duo did was something never seen before. A scale tipping that not only impacted other Force wielders, but one that literally conceived a being destined to annihilate the Jedi establishment and Sith Lord responsible. As for Taalon bathtime, what can be observed is along the lines with a "Disturbance in the Force".
especially since balance is capitalized (assuming there was no error in my RT making or text file of Vortex).
It is a mistake. A capital is only used in titles for non-connective words, the beginning of sentences and proper nouns. The (b)alance of the Force is not a proper noun. It is merely a postulate way to describe a state of flux.
Considering Luke was expecting a TK attack
You're cherry picking. Yes he expected TK, but he specifically expected Taalon to steal his blaster. Which is not the same as telekinetic body snatching, and instead of projecting some sort of barrier he tightens his gun-hand.
that Luke managed to right his bodily orientation but not fully free himself,
Deja Vu. Let's get this straight. Luke wasn't prepared for Telekinesis affecting his body and he didn't actively defend against it. But just to put the final nail in the coffin, let's take another look at the full quote and analyse true nature of what's happening:
"Luke tossed the longblaster aside and snatched his lightsaber, then quickly used the Force to right himself before he reached the beach. But Taalon did not hurl him into the sand, or even attempt to send him flying into Gavar Khai’s scarlet blade. He merely dropped Luke to the ground at a distance of five meters, then motioned for Khai to put his weapon away." - Excerpt From: Denning, Troy. "Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi : Vortex"
Luke is unwittingly pulled against his will - which is unsurprising... because it wasn't type of assault he predicted. Yes, he then attempts to "right his bodily orientation", because he expects Taalon to literally drag him onto the tip of a crimson blade. But he doesn't, and Luke is simply dropped five meters away. So essentially, the exact moment Luke tried to rebuke Taalon's Force clutch was when Taalon had allready released him.
I'd say it's a pretty impressive showing of TK effectiveness against Luke.
It's as about impressive as all the other times someone's been caught off-gaurd with TK.
I'd say moving faster than someone could perceive would give one a considerable edge in combat, especially since without it, Taalon was still fighting Luke pretty on par.
And where's your proof that Luke was making active use of the Force to enhance his preceptory skills? The situation didn't call for it, given they weren't engaged in battle.
That's understandable. The length of the time it took you to respond does not warrant any ill judgement from me.
Luke was fighting Taalon and Vestara, Ben was fighting Gavar, Gavar stabbed Ben in the side with a Parang then ran over to the others. Luke grabbed Gavar from behind and threw him into the others before cutting off Gavar's hand. Taalon blasted Luke into the wall with FL and held him there until Ben disrupted the current with his lightsaber blade. Luke and Ben ran out of the cave and collapsed it behind them. Iirc later on Luke, Ben and Vestara leave the planet when Gavar and Taalon attack rather than simply handling them then and there. So yeah, given that they fled, I'd say Taalon being at least a match for Luke at this point makes sense. Not to mention the quote from a secondary source (let's be real here, we ALL use secondary sources in debating) is completely uncontradicted by the source material.
Find me other examples of individuals causing such a shift and then we'll talk.
Was it a mistake? Can anyone with a copy of the book on hand confirm or deny this?
So Luke expects TK in the middle of a fight and... What? Doesn't throw up a barrier?
Luke got dragged a considerable distance and seems to have righted himself well before he reached his destination, I don't see why he wouldn't free himself and leave himself to whatever Taalon chooses to do.
Ummm... Luke was shooting at the guy with a blaster trying to kill him, so yeah it was combat. If Luke wasn't making use of his preceptory abilites then he's a dumbass. Secondly, Luke has fought plenty of Sith capable of seeming to teleport to non-Force users in a more impressive way (and even some of them to Force wielders). Luke using muggle vision makes absolutely no sense in the context of what happened or his reaction to it.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
That's understandable. The length of the time it took you to respond does not warrant any ill judgement from me.
Kek.
Granted, Luke tends to do much better against opponents who are initially kicking his ass after he takes his gloves are. His performance vs. Unuthul is probably the most apparent example.