Originally posted by AncientPower
He stated nothing conclusive actually, he wondered how Naga Sadow and Exar Kun had displayed great powers that he had yet to replicate and comes to two logical conclusions. They were either simply more powerful or the dark side had been more potent in their day.
He also says later in the book that if a Sith of equal or greater power preceded him, they took their secrets to the grave.
Originally posted by AncientPower
He's thinking about sorcery and the ability to become immortal, he references Sadow taking stars out and Kun freezing the senate as feats he considers great indicators of ancient Sith prowess.
I've read the book and I know the passage you're referring to. I'm just telling you he also thinks that if there was ever a Sith who was his equal, they died in total obscurity. Clearly he doesn't think Kun or Sadow are his equals even if they possessed abilities he hasn't replicated.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
He also says later in the book that if a Sith of equal or greater power preceded him, they took their secrets to the grave.
How coincidental.
The dark knowledge of the Sith teachings died with Kun, it is extremely unlikely that any records survive, either on Yavin IV or elsewhere.
- The Jedi Academy Sourcebook
Sidious of course rectifies this, but well after Plagueis' time, at least in reference to Naga Sadow's knowledge.
Originally posted by AncientPowerHe's thinking about the ancient Sith's ability to extent their life specifically, after which he muses that this was because a) they were more powerful or b) the fact dark side was more prominent not potent. Big difference, he means more widespread, practiced, eminent etc.
He's thinking about sorcery and the ability to become immortal, he references Sadow taking stars out and Kun freezing the senate as feats he considers great indicators of ancient Sith prowess.
Then he goes on to talk about sorcery in general, but as Temp points out, doesn't seem to believe any of those abilities are beyond him.
Originally posted by AncientPower
How coincidental.Sidious of course rectifies this, but well after Plagueis' time, at least in reference to Naga Sadow's knowledge.
Beni has already addressed this. Plagueis clearly knew much about Kun and Sadow but doesn't think they are his equals.
Obviously doesn't mean he's necessarily correct, but at no point does Plagueis regard himself as inferior.
Sidious after getting a power-up following Plagueis's death: "Had the Force ever been so strong in anyone?"
Neither of them thought themselves to be weak.
I also contend that the fact that their possible status as most powerful ever is mused about in the narrative gives the publisher's blurb more credibility because it now has a smaller burden - it's just confirming that Plagueis was right.
To be fair Stealth, the Banite Sith on the whole were generally not exactly in the best position to pull off big scale feats in the sense of draining planets, killing or telepathically mindraping millions/billions of individuals, etc. I personally believe Plagueis is a more powerful individual than any of the ancient Sith bar Vitiate.
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
I think you're mistaking Maladians for Mandalorians... although it's worth noting that the former are less respected.
If neither are Force sensitive, it's rubbish anyways.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
To be fair Stealth, the Banite Sith on the whole were generally not exactly in the best position to pull off big scale feats in the sense of draining planets, killing or telepathically mindraping millions/billions of individuals, etc. I personally believe Plagueis is a more powerful individual than any of the ancient Sith bar Vitiate.
But what are you basing that on? His own opinions and the opinions of his acolyte? His speedblitz which got tons of praise way back when the book came out? The wank about Sids and his master doing Tantric to move the Force slightly out of balance against a bunch of witless Jedi who can't even Force Sever or Wall of Light?
If he had possession of such scale of powers, proof would be positive. If he can't, but he's just you know... powerful on a limited scale, that precludes him from being among the top shelf Sith. Vitiate in particular nom'd an entire planet as a teen. Sion holds his body together from thousands of breaks, tears, and cuts through sheer rage. Sadow nearly toppled the Republic in a day with his Meditation Sphere.
Weigh in on this by all means. Let's see some respect threads or something about him.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
But what are you basing that on? His own opinions and the opinions of his acolyte? His speedblitz which got tons of praise way back when the book came out? The wank about Sids and his master doing Tantric to move the Force slightly out of balance against a bunch of witless Jedi who can't even Force Sever or Wall of Light?If he had possession of such scale of powers, proof would be positive. If he can't, but he's just you know... powerful on a limited scale, that precludes him from being among the top shelf Sith. Vitiate in particular nom'd an entire planet as a teen. Sion holds his body together from thousands of breaks, tears, and cuts through sheer rage. Sadow nearly toppled the Republic in a day with his Meditation Sphere.
Weigh in on this by all means. Let's see some respect threads or something about him.
To be honest, I could care less about speed when it comes to characters at these levels of power. Look no further than Valkorion. The guy who stands still and oneshots everybody in all of his fights.
The Maladian feat does indeed impress me due to the context of the feat. Plagueis is literally almost dead, having to use heart stun just to keep himself alive, and he's still sending out force waves that are literally, "all but atomizing," the armored Maladian assassins. A comparison I'd like to draw is that Luke Skywalker, the son of the Chosen One that's generally regarded as the most powerful Jedi to ever live in his prime, was shocked when he reduced someone to bone with a telekinetic attack, (I'm sorry I can't recall the source in which this occurred, I'll try to find it). Another similar feat is Vitiate unleashing his rage on T3-M4 and disintegrating him/it. Plagueis accomplished the Maladian feat while:
1. Near-dead
2. Long before his prime, (later on Plagueus uses midichlorian manipulation to become, "far more powerful"😉.
And yes, Plagueis and Sidious throwing the force out of balance, even if it was done with Sidious and also months of meditation, is an absolutely immense feat. Though it doesn't tell us anything about his combative aptitude, neither does Sadow using the meditation sphere.
I think it's also important to note that based on his fight with Venamis coupled with his immense raw power/speed/physical strength, Plagueis is an incredibly skilled and adroit lightsaber combatant. And Luceno implies that Plagueis could have found a way to defeat his apprentice in a duel had it come down to that. This is Sidious, probably the most frighteningly skilled lightsaber duelist amongst the Sith we've ever seen from a feats-standpoint. Ultimately, I just find Plagueis's cosmic scale of affecting the force, along with his immense physicals and lightsaber/force skill in combat, to put him above any ancient Sith we've seen bar Vitiate, who's one shotting the likes of Revan long before his peak in Knights of the Fallen Empire as Valkorion.
Just to clear a couple of things up:
1. Vitiate was not a teen when he nom'd Nathema, he was a century-old sorcerer by that point.
2. He needed the aid of 8000 Sith Lords to complete this immense ritual.
3. The ritual is described as the most complex sith ritual ever attempted, more so than anything Hord, Sadow, Ragnos, or Muur ever dared to do.
4. Interestingly enough, Revan's transcript of Vitiate's ritual inspired the Thought Bomb.