Originally posted by EmperordmbTrue that's probably most likely.
So did Malgus, Bane, Scourge, Vindican, and several students at the Korriban academy before they were christened Darths or without ever being christened Darths. Just having a Sith name is definitely not indicative of one being a Darth.
Originally posted by AncientPower
The point not being that Warb Null is as strong as Venamis, but that the amount of accolades and feats he has, paints him as a very strong Dark Jedi with knowledge on par with Venamis, if not superior to him. Warb Null who, again, was fodderised by an Ulic far less powerful than the Ulic facing Exar Kun whom himself improves drastically.Exar Kun learnt from the Dark Holocron which contains Sith knowledge, the oldest of which dated further back than a hundred thousand years. Exar Kun's saberstaff is stated to be from an ancient Sith design, he verbally owes his victory over Vodo Siosk-Baas to a correct use of ancient Sith teachings. This implies heavily that Exar Kun's new unique form, which was stated to make him a virtually unstoppable combatant, was derived from the Dark Holocron or Naga Sadow's treasury and thus his style would be relevant to Kreia's (accurate) assessment.
Exar Kun in his prime as a Sith was stated to be far more powerful than any other Jedi of the time, clearly they still consider Dark Jedi to be relevant to that stated or it wouldn't state he was far more powerful than other Jedi. Thus the implication of Exar Kun being far more powerful than his apprentice is valid.
Could you post the full quote for that? I think the one in ILS's respect thread has some typo shit going on and it's seriously ****ing with my head.
"Though Kun had enormous power, it seems that, the key was that the other Jedi combined their might. They fought together as a unit where all the pieces fit together, as components in a much larger machine powered by the Force."
- Tionne Solusar, Star Wars Jedi Academy Trilogy Volume 3 - Champions of the Force
She discovers the accounts of the Great Sith War, and learns that though Kun was far more powerful than any one other Jedi of the time, a combined force had defeated him.
- The Jedi Academy Sourcebook
Originally posted by AncientPower
The point not being that Warb Null is as strong as Venamis, but that the amount of accolades and feats he has, paints him as a very strong Dark Jedi with knowledge on par with Venamis, if not superior to him. Warb Null who, again, was fodderised by an Ulic far less powerful than the Ulic facing Exar Kun whom himself improves drastically.
Warb Null being as knowledgable as Venamis, who has mastered every single style(as oppose to Warb who's only confirmed style is Shii-Cho lol) and has enough knowledge from Tenebrous(someone considerably, if not substantially, more knowledgable than Bane) to challenge Plagueis is just hilarious. And at least Venamis has the power/skill/physicals to back up the knowledge he's given, Null doesn't.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun learnt from the Dark Holocron which contains Sith knowledge, the oldest of which dated further back than a hundred thousand years. Exar Kun's saberstaff is stated to be from an ancient Sith design, he verbally owes his victory over Vodo Siosk-Baas to a correct use of ancient Sith teachings. This implies heavily that Exar Kun's new unique form, which was stated to make him a virtually unstoppable combatant, was derived from the Dark Holocron or Naga Sadow's treasury and thus his style would be relevant to Kreia's (accurate) assessment.
Him verbally scolding Vodo about how his teachings pale in comparisons to the teachings of the ancient Sith is irrelevant to me. Can I get a quote that says Kun's saberstaff is from an ancient Sith design? From what I recall: Exar Kun was the creator of the saberstaff and his model in particular is unique. Kun might've been inspired by ancient Sith knowledge, but it's highly unlike he modeled his lightsaber completely off of old designs.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun in his prime as a Sith was stated to be far more powerful than any other Jedi of the time, clearly they still consider Dark Jedi to be relevant to that stated or it wouldn't state he was far more powerful than other Jedi. Thus the implication of Exar Kun being far more powerful than his apprentice is valid.
Jedi and Dark Jedi are two very distinct terms. And neither refers to Qel-Droma in his prime. He was given the rank of Sith Lord, and the first and foremost apprentice of Exar Kun.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Sorry for Syndicating, but I'm still on vacation and thus restricted to my phone."Instead of actually training his doltish apprentice, Tenebrous had flattered Plagueis' mysticism while pricking his insecurities, sending him off on one useless, doomed-to-fail mission after another."
"Full access to his apprentice's Force-perceptions! Delightful. Better than Tenebrous had allowed himself to hope. Hmm-perhaps he should have invested some time in actually training the foolish Muun."
Tenebrous trained Plagueis to a good enough extent that he no longer required his master? You do realize in the Banite line even POD Bane was powerful enough to function on his own in the Galaxy without a master and with FAR less resources, so that hardly proves anything. Tenebrous never intended Plagueis to surpass him, merely to set Plagueis on the immortality seeking path so he'd create the chosen one with Plagueis possessing an unparralleled aptitude for midichlorian manipulation, however even with the ability within Plagueis Tenebrous prized most and was most essential to his goals, Plagueis under Tenebrous's training hadn't even reached the point where he could influence the midichlorians, merely perceive them, and even then Tenebrous viewed his ability to do so as "clumsy force probing"
And on Baldemnic, I was mainly referring to Plagueis's inability to handle the massive explosion and that he got knocked on his ass by it, whereas Tenebrous not only blocked the entire explosion from reaching him and Plagueis but simultaneously held several ship crushing slabs above their ship.
And as far as the speed goes, the Tenebrous way confirms that Tenebrous's death was all part of Tenebrous's master plan, so I'm a little more than hesitant to view the circumstances of his death as indicating parity or superiority on Plagueis's part.
So again no, Banite scaling does not apply to these two.
Dang. 👆
Venamis was trained solely as a weapon against Darth Plagueis, he is certainly not comparable in knowledge to King Adas or Freedon Nadd. Certainly not the two of them combined, whilst Warb Null wouldn't strictly retain their knowledge he does share their memories and cunning. This renders him a source of combat knowledge far beyond that of Venamis.
The construction and use of the first double-bladed lightsaber is sometimes credited to Jedi-turned-Sith Exar Kun, but according to the Tedryn Holocron, Exar Kun assembled his weapon by following instructions from a Sith Holocron, possibly prepared by the Jedi Exiles themselves.
- Jedi VS Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force
Exar Kun's saberstaff was an ancient Sith design from the Dark Holocron, something we know he learnt much knowledge of the Sith from and became more powerful for it:
Odan-Urr goes to the Force and the darkest power in the galaxy walks away with something that will make him even stronger.
- Tales of the Jedi Omnibus Volume 2: Dark Lords of the Sith
"Locked within it's recesses, accessible only to a Dark Lord of the Sith, are the forgotten histories and lore, dating back a hundred thousand years and more."
- Odan-Urr, Tales of the Jedi Omnibus Volume 2: Dark Lords of the Sith
Odan-Urr kept this Sith Holocron for nearly a millennium before it was stolen by the Jedi Exar Kun, who used it to learn many secrets of the ancient Sith.
- Jedi VS Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force
So we know for a fact that Exar Kun got his saberstaff design from the Dark Holocron, but he also retailored his entire fighting style to become a 'virtually unstoppable combatant':
As the battle against the Jedi escalated, Kun altered his normal lightsaber into a more deadly and dangerous weapon. Kun added a second emitter matrix on the opposite end of the handgrip, allowing him to release two blue-white blades simultaneously. The dark Jedi wielded the saber much as he would a quarterstaff, using one blade to block incoming attacks, then quickly spinning the handgrip to use the second blade to strike a killing blow against his opponent.Customized controls allowed him to adjust each blade's length from half a meter to one and a half meters. Panels controlled each blade's intensity: at its highest setting, a blade was like any other lightsaber, with the ability to cut through dense materials such as armor plating and durasteel with virtually no resistance. At the lowest power setting, a blade became a simple shaft of light, delivering no damage and providing no resistance against incoming lightsaber attacks. By abruptly shortening a blade or dropping it to the lowest power setting, Kun tricked his opponents into overextending themselves during attacks, giving him an opportunity for a dealy counterstrike. By coupling these tactics with his Force abilities to predict the actions of his opponents, Kun became virtually unstoppable in combat.
- The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology
So yes, he became a far more deadly opponent in combat, contrary to your claim, even Vodo Siosk-Baas stood no chance at all:
Ulic’s trial was interrupted by Exar Kun, who met his former Master face to face for the first time since his long descent into darkness. The two fought, and Vodo-Siosk Baas was no match for Exar Kun’s double-bladed lightsaber and deep reserve of dark side power. Vodo-Sioask perished, slain by his former apprentice.
- Power of the Jedi Sourcebook
In the process he once more faced his former master, Vodo Siosk Baas, this time armed with a double-bladed lightsaber of his own construction. Master Vodo did not have a chance, and fell to his former student.
- The Dark Side Sourcebook
So yes Vodo stood no chance against a 'virtually unstoppable comvatant', who used ancient Sith lightsaber fighting style. Ancient Sith duelists are stated by Kreia to make Kotor era Jedi look like infants by comparison, something Chris Avellone states is an accurate estimate.
Meaning that Exar Kun is far more deadly in combat than when he faced Ulic Qel-Droma and became:
Once the most powerful and dangerous of the Dark Lords of the Sith, he_[Exar Kun]_was responsible for the deaths of millions four millennia before the rise of the Empire.
- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
As if that wasn't enough, in a section containing Exar Kun, Ulic Qel-Droma, Freedon Nadd and Naga Sadow, Kun is stated to be:
The most powerful and dangerous of all Sith Lords, Exar Kun was once the apprentice of the Jedi Master Vodo Siosk-Baas.
- Dark Lords of the Sith, The Official Star Wars Fact File #1
Evidently, Exar Kun is his apprentice's clear superior.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Venamis was trained solely as a weapon against Darth Plagueis, he is certainly not comparable in knowledge to King Adas or Freedon Nadd. Certainly not the two of them combined, whilst Warb Null wouldn't strictly retain their knowledge he does share their memories and cunning. This renders him a source of combat knowledge far beyond that of Venamis.
Venamis was trained to be a weapon against Plagueis, but was also trained as a genuine RoT apprentice should Tenebrous need one after Hego's death. This gives him the combined knowledge of several of the Rule of Two's past Sith Lords, one of which is Freedon Nadd. Warb Null sharing their "cunning"
Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun's saberstaff was an ancient Sith design from the Dark Holocron, something we know he learnt much knowledge of the Sith from and became more powerful for it:
None of those quotes state: "It was an ancient Sith design!" All it says is Exar Kun gained knowledge. Great, instead of making me run in circles, answer my question: What source specifically notes it was from an ancient Sith design? And even if there is a source, Exar Kun is noted as being the one who created the double-bladed lightsaber. So my point stands, he might've had inspiration from the Dark Holocron, but he didn't get a lightsaber design out of it. He created his own modifications.
Originally posted by AncientPower
So we know for a fact that Exar Kun got his saberstaff design from the Dark Holocron, but he also retailored his entire fighting style to become a 'virtually unstoppable combatant':
Alright, I guess. Only problem is we don't know for a fact and saying he got it from the Dark Holocron is highly contradictory.
Originally posted by AncientPower
So yes, he became a far more deadly opponent in combat, contrary to your claim, even Vodo Siosk-Baas stood no chance at all:
If by stood no chance you mean "no match for Kun's double-bladed lightsaber" you'd be correct. Prior to any double-blading, they seemed to be relatively even.
Originally posted by AncientPower
So yes Vodo stood no chance against a 'virtually unstoppable comvatant', who used ancient Sith lightsaber fighting style. Ancient Sith duelists are stated by Kreia to make Kotor era Jedi look like infants by comparison, something Chris Avellone states is an accurate estimate.
Ancient Sith lightsaber style my ass, he created his own unique style in accordance to his new unique lightsaber which is the first of it's kind. I don't even know how I got sucked into this useless tangent.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Meaning that Exar Kun is far more deadly in combat than when he faced Ulic Qel-Droma and became:
Evidently, Exar Kun is his apprentice's clear superior.
And that's great and all, but I never disputed Kun clearly being superior, I'm disputing him being "heads and shoulders" above Ulic who is "heads and shoulders" above Null who is "equal" to Venamis(to whom, besides possibly knowledge, he ain't coming close to).
The quote literally states he built his lightsaber based off of instructions from the Dark Holocron, what are you reading? It even states the dark Jedi Exiles may have been the source for it. Do you need to be hand-held?
The construction and use of the first double-bladed lightsaber is sometimes credited to Jedi-turned-Sith Exar Kun, but according to the Tedryn Holocron, Exar Kun assembled his weapon by following instructions from a Sith Holocron, possibly prepared by the Jedi Exiles themselves.
-Â_Jedi VS Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force