Cosmic vs Magic

So Im in the nerd section of Barnes and Nobles right now sipping my tea and i overhear two guys debating comics. Both seem pretty versed in the lore so i was intrigued.

Any way after introducing myself and grabbing a table we had a pretty heated debate on Cosmic might vs Magical power. They both agreed that they were analogous to a degree but disagreed on which was ultimately more powerful. Names like Lucifer Morningstar/HOM Wanda/LT/ Galactus etc were thrown out. We spent the better part of an hour discussing it and i wanted you guys opinion.

Which is more powerful?
Which is more versatile?

so basically they dp'd you in the library?

but to answer your question, at their highest levels they are basically the same just different means to an end, hell you'd be hard pressed to find something one can do that the other cant. but at the lower level id say cosmic has the edge due to the whole "magic always comes with a price" crap thats prevalent through out fiction, also they May need to perform certain actions/fulfill conditions to use magic, ranging from specific words/songs, certain hand/body moves or materials that need to be consumed or even extensive rituals. but magic at its highest level is pretty much unbound
. matter of fact i have a good idea, do a magic vs cosmic feat challenge, kind of like that silver surfer vs green lantern thread a while back. for what one energy can do you have to post a equal or greater feat. but to go in a lil deeper, id personally side with cosmic due to the fact that that it seems much quicker and doesnt require as much effort and sacrifice as magic does. at there lower levels cosmic seems more like a think as you go kinda thing and has less restrictions.

Magic will always trump cosmic power.

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Originally posted by abhilegend
Magic will always trump cosmic power.

👆

does magic have omniversal feats?

Originally posted by ghostman
so basically they dp'd you in the library?

but to answer your question, at their highest levels they are basically the same just different means to an end, hell you'd be hard pressed to find something one can do that the other cant. but at the lower level id say cosmic has the edge due to the whole "magic always comes with a price" crap thats prevalent through out fiction, also they May need to perform certain actions/fulfill conditions to use magic, ranging from specific words/songs, certain hand/body moves or materials that need to be consumed or even extensive rituals. but magic at its highest level is pretty much unbound
. matter of fact i have a good idea, do a magic vs cosmic feat challenge, kind of like that silver surfer vs green lantern thread a while back. for what one energy can do you have to post a equal or greater feat. but to go in a lil deeper, id personally side with cosmic due to the fact that that it seems much quicker and doesnt require as much effort and sacrifice as magic does. at there lower levels cosmic seems more like a think as you go kinda thing and has less restrictions.

My thing with magic though is when there seems to be no residual effect. Cosmic powers seem to have a stricter sense of laws. Magic seems to not be bound.

Can cosmic powers alter reality?

Originally posted by ghostman
does magic have omniversal feats?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
My thing with magic though is when there seems to be no residual effect. Cosmic powers seem to have a stricter sense of laws. Magic seems to not be bound.

Can cosmic powers alter reality?

Magic is...well magic.

Miring brah?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
My thing with magic though is when there seems to be no residual effect. Cosmic powers seem to have a stricter sense of laws. Magic seems to not be bound.

Can cosmic powers alter reality?

what...... youve got it completely backwards, magic is far far FAR more restricted. did you not read the whole "magic always comes with a price" thing? i KNOW you heard that saying before... like say a magician wanted to remove the souls of every human on earth, under normal circumstances, he would need to do a ritual, prepare and do some sort of incantation or chant, as most magic doesnt work on the whole think as you go/handwave method. while cosmic powers most of the time they would just wave their hand or think about it and it happens.

and of course cosmic powers can warp reality, have you ever heard of a COSMIC CUBE ???? serious girl?

There is no doubt that the current Marvel Multi-verse is based on science. That is evident with the Secret Wars events. Science is king, at least with Marvel.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. At similar power level, a mage is always going to trump a cosmic being. Just look at Dr. Strange or Dr. Fate.

i disagree, dr fate and strange are not your runt of the mill magicians. what cosmic characters are on fate and stranges level? thanos?

also scans for omniversal magic?'

and add to the fact that most of stranges best feats require prep. further proving my point in my first post, its more restricted

Originally posted by abhilegend
The main difference is that cosmic power is restricted by the laws of physics.

Magic is...well magic.

cosmic power is not restricted by the laws of physics. cosmic cube? IG? and the numerous other cosmic characters like beyonder and molecule man that warp reality and defy the laws of physics

Originally posted by ghostman
what...... youve got it completely backwards, magic is far far FAR more restricted. did you not read the whole "magic always comes with a price" thing? i KNOW you heard that saying before... like say a magician wanted to remove the souls of every human on earth, under normal circumstances, he would need to do a ritual, prepare and do some sort of incantation or chant, as most magic doesnt work on the whole think as you go/handwave method. while cosmic powers most of the time they would just wave their hand or think about it and it happens.

and of course cosmic powers can warp reality, have you ever heard of a COSMIC CUBE ???? serious girl?

Yes, the artifacts in MU are always powerful. Even then Dr. Strange (Just Strange) took on Adam Warlock with IG and held his own. In fairness Warlock was using one gem only but you will not find a cosmic being of lesser power taking on a more powerful magical being.

Originally posted by ghostman
i disagree, dr fate and strange are not your runt of the mill magicians. what cosmic characters are on fate and stranges level? thanos?

also scans for omniversal magic?'

and add to the fact that most of stranges best feats require prep. further proving my point in my first post, its more restricted

Lord of Chaos and Order destroyed and recreated entire creation. Words like Omniversal or multiversal are meaningless.

Originally posted by ghostman
cosmic power is not restricted by the laws of physics. cosmic cube? IG? and the numerous other cosmic characters like beyonder and molecule man that warp reality and defy the laws of physics

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not all writers take with "Magic comes with a price." A mage can remove all the souls from Earth. The same will take at least a skyfather in cosmic tier.

Yes, the artifacts in MU are always powerful. Even then Dr. Strange (Just Strange) took on Adam Warlock with IG and held his own. In fairness Warlock was using one gem only but you will not find a cosmic being of lesser power taking on a more powerful magical being.

Of course they are not. But they are not that powerful in the sorcerer hierarchy.

Lord of Chaos and Order destroyed and recreated entire creation. Words like Omniversal or multiversal are meaningless.
You are going to the very top of the hierarchy. Lesser cosmic characters? Yes, they do.

yes but the majority DO. you cant ignore most writers not writing magical characters as unbound and limitless , and use the minority of them that dont have those limits as the standard and add to the fact that most need chants and incantations prep and a plethora of other things. and kilowog has performed planetary soul manipulation before. hes not skyfather, so has superman blue.

didnt surfer take on mephisto in his own realm? didnt superman punch through emperor joker ? those are examples of lesser cosmic characters taking on more powerful magic beings.

also, destroying entire creation can mean a universe, im going to need the context of that one. "entire creation" can mean a single universe. those terms are not meaningless. and youre doing the same exact thing for the magic side, using minority examples as the majority. most magic characters arent doing planetary soul manip without some prep or chanting.

Originally posted by ghostman
what...... youve got it completely backwards, magic is far far FAR more restricted. did you not read the whole "magic always comes with a price" thing? i KNOW you heard that saying before... like say a magician wanted to remove the souls of every human on earth, under normal circumstances, he would need to do a ritual, prepare and do some sort of incantation or chant, as most magic doesnt work on the whole think as you go/handwave method. while cosmic powers most of the time they would just wave their hand or think about it and it happens.

and of course cosmic powers can warp reality, have you ever heard of a COSMIC CUBE ???? serious girl?

That only applies up to a certain level. Godly magic for example doesn't require such actions

Originally posted by ghostman
does magic have omniversal feats?

If the LT decides to wipe out a universe, is he using magic or cosmic power or something else entirely? You get to a certain point and nobody even bothers with distinguishing the type of power used (if there even is a difference at that level)

Originally posted by Sin I AM
That only applies up to a certain level. Godly magic for example doesn't require such actions

yes and thats the minority. most magic isnt that way. at those levels im talking about is where cosmic has the edge. it doesnt need all that stuff. you need godly top tier magic to abandon it. even then most characters still need some sort of proxy.

Originally posted by Cogito
HoM Wanda

If the LT decides to wipe out a universe, is he using magic or cosmic power or something else entirely? You get to a certain point and nobody even bothers with distinguishing the type of power used (if there even is a difference at that level)

wasnt she retconned into channeling the life force of some other being? idk man that shits a mess.

Originally posted by ghostman
yes and thats the minority. most magic isnt that way. at those levels im talking about is where cosmic has the edge. it doesnt need all that stuff. you need godly top tier magic to abandon it. even then most characters still need some sort of proxy.

Let's see Strange, Doom (at times ) Zatanna, Fate...who doesn't? Never seen Loki do it or any of the hell lords..or magik..I can't remember if Wiccan did it or not he's a forgettable character

I'm not too clear on what the difference is supposed to be. Cosmic as far as I am concerned is a scale on which a certain power can operate on.

Even the the Living Tribunal used spells.