Darth Caedus feat: Stomping Katarn's team.

Started by MythLord3 pages
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
I implore that you open your mind to several circumstances that aren't just possible, but are also very likely. From the start, Katarn is able to sense the world in a spectrum beyond sight, smell and hearing. With the Force he is able to produce sphere of vision that can sense movement around him - which conveniently extends to actions of his team mates.

So you're saying Katarn having great sense feats means he's using Battle Meld? I'm pretty sure passive sense is a thing even in battle.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
On top of that, the Force grants him premonitions into the future, however, the battlemeld takes this one step further:

"It permits a group of Jedi to connect their minds so closely as to act as a single person." ―Jorus C'baoth, excerpt taken from Outbound Flight.

Except here they didn't really act as a single person, given how they kept being taken out by Caedus, and the only time they actually coordinated was when Kolir saved Katarn from an amputation and Katarn saved Hu'lya.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Jacen also notes that his failure to dismember Katarn wasn't due to some fluke, but rather that the team he faced presented good co-ordination.

He notes they're coordinating and that somehow means Katarn's willing to open himself up to get his leg skewered by Caedus? It means they're there to save/protect their allies, much like any good Jedi should Meld or not.

It doesn't mean Kyle is braindead enough to leave himself exposed to an amputation.

If he had enough faith in his teammates that he thought they would be able to defend him against such a strike then I see no reason why he wouldn't have devoted more focus to his offense over his defense.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I agree. None of this points toward Katarn being hindered by having a well-coordinated team of Jedi backing him, though.
Did you even read the book? The team was getting destroyed, and Katarn had to keep saving them. Katarn got saved about two times and the rest of the fight was Katarn running around trying to save the members of his team, which gave him unwanted injury several times.

Originally posted by MythLord
So you're saying Katarn having great sense feats means he's using Battle Meld? I'm pretty sure passive sense is a thing even in battle. It doesn't mean Kyle is braindead enough to leave himself exposed to an amputation.

I'm afraid you've misunderstood the point here so I'll try to explain in a little more depth. The nature of this dispute is whether or not Katarn would have fought Caedus in the exact same manner, had their not been a team of coordinated individuals to aid him. You seem to think the fight would be nil unchanged, and that someone who Jacen originally perceived as a threat, would be one leg shorter after a mere 15 seconds of battle... but Katarn wasn't alone.

He notes they're coordinating and that somehow means Katarn's willing to open himself up to get his leg skewered by Caedus? It means they're there to save/protect their allies, much like any good Jedi should Meld or not.

Premise 1. The New Jedi Order were notorious for using Force melds among small groups of people, even when piloting star fighters, so it's very likely that the team's alleged coordination is in small thanks to said ability

Premise 2. Even without a Force meld, Katarn can afford to overextend himself with the backup of another three lightsabers behind him. You must remember that Katarn like all Jedi can perceive the world in a spectrum far beyond the five senses. Imagine that the Force creates a spherical barrier allowing Katarn to not only detect the shapes and movements of his teammates, but also their emotions.

Premise 3. On top of his other perceptive abilities, the Force gives him premonitions into the future. However slight these fore-warnings may be, they still allow Katarn to predict the attacks of an opponent before they happen. In accordance to this fact, they also allow him to foresee the actions of his squad, perhaps envisioning a blue-bladed lightsaber coming to save his leg, rather than a scarlet one amputating it. I hope you'll agree with this particular point, otherwise you might as well argue that Dooku would have been killed Coleman Trebor, if not for the interception of the most dangerous bounty hunter in the galaxy.

Premise 4. If the Force meld was used, then Katarn can almost certainly perform riskier moves to subdue Caedus, while relying on his squad to provide sufficient support. It's not really question after that, the battle meld can link the minds of a group so well that it will often cause the users to start finishing each other's sentences or thoughts.

Conclusion : Katarn would have approached a fight with Caedus very differently had he been alone, and would have probably lost in long and good fight.

Except here they didn't really act as a single person, given how they kept being taken out by Caedus, and the only time they actually coordinated was when Kolir saved Katarn from an amputation and Katarn saved Hu'lya.

Force melds do not assure that the group using it will become invincible. As noted in The Unseen Queen, It is true that if the meld participants were distracted in thoughts and could not focus to a common objective, then the meld could become a liability or break off altogether. So I hope you realize that by his own admittance, Jacen was on the loosing end of the duel against the strike team in question, until the Plaza's alarm was raised with the presence of several speeders, which did distract the team. From there of course, he started picking apart the lesser team members with his Force abilities.


It doesn't mean Kyle is braindead enough to leave himself exposed to an amputation.

It's certainly less brain dead than the assumption that Katarn's fight would have played out in the exact same manner, had there not been other circumstances attached.

So all I'm getting is: Jedi in the NJO use Force Meld, which the book doesn't even mention Katarn and his team using. Katarn is more devoted to offense than defense. Caedus' subjective opinions somehow means Kyle left himself exposed on purpose.

All conjecture, coming from two trolls.

At least it's better than EvanNova's argument 👆

The novel makes it clear that Kyle was saved by his teammates. There was no ill coordination involved, lol. Kyle doesn't stand a chance against Caedus either way.

Originally posted by MythLord
So all I'm getting is: Jedi in the NJO use Force Meld, which the book doesn't even mention Katarn and his team using. Katarn is more devoted to offense than defense. Caedus' subjective opinions somehow means Kyle left himself exposed on purpose.

All conjecture, coming from two trolls.

At least it's better than EvanNova's argument 👆

I hope there's more to come after this...

Yeah, I hate to say it, but Ziggy kinda raped Wollf here, tbh.

Nigga, tell that lie to someone else. You're just here for the Katarn wank.

Ziggy kind of rapes himself tbh.

👆

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nigga, tell that lie to someone else. You're just here for the Katarn wank.

How dare you....

I would never pick wank over a friend, do I look like DMB to you?

Yoooo DC if you're looking to wank Katarn then you're gonna LOVE the shit i found the JO guide and other sources 😉

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
How dare you....

I would never pick wank over a friend, do I look like DMB to you?

😆

👆

Is Ziggy actually arguing that a Force Meld would have impeded Katarn instead of greatly benefit him?

Because lol if so.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Is Ziggy actually arguing that a Force Meld would have impeded Katarn instead of greatly benefit him?

Because lol if so.

No it isn't. Mine and Wolf's dispute, which wolf has officially conceded to by the way, was wether Katarn would have lost a leg in the first 15 seconds of a duel, if he fought Caedus without a potentially 'melded' team. It's a little off-topic, hence the 3rd party confusion, but It is almost purely in regards to this part of the fight and nothing else:

Caedus rolled out of Katarn's kick to his head, catching a scrape along his cheek, and swung at the Master's leg, but Kolir's blade intercepted his before it bit into flesh. His strength batted her weapon away, but she had deflected his blow and spared Katarn an amputation. They're coordinating. Good for them. Bad for me.

- Legacy of the Force : Fury

I'm suggesting that Katarn can respectively rely on his teammates to provide sufficient support, especially if they're in a 'meld' and that it's illogical to assume the fight would play out in the exact same manner if his team were not present.

Officially conceded because I don't bother entertaining a troll, who's entire argument is based on conjecture, so Katarn let Caedus nearly amputate him 👆

Whatever helps you sleep at night, Ziggy.

Originally posted by MythLord
Officially conceded because I don't bother entertaining a troll, who's entire argument is based on conjecture,
Whatever helps you sleep at night, Ziggy.

Now Wolfmyth, there really is no need to get so personal about this, it is merely a friendly dispute. Becoming personal, insulting and rude as soon as you perceive that your opponent has the upper hand, is a poor way to save face.

so Katarn let Caedus nearly amputate him 👆

And I've explained in detail why that is not the case. I even gave you a comparable instance, or do you wish to admit that Dooku would have been killed by the almighty Coleman Trebor had Jango Fett not been there to save him?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
How dare you....

I would never pick wank over a friend, do I look like DMB to you?


You're basically DMB for Durron, you assbackwards, NJO wanking ****.