Can anyone Defeat Maul?

Started by Ziggystardust2 pages

Can anyone Defeat Maul?

Or at least challenge him?

When I say anyone, the presumption is that anyone has at least a Force connection and a Lightsaber. Although that step isn’t always necessary - click me. A name would also be nice, but even that step can be tiptoed as well - click me. When I say win, it doesn’t have to be a majority, but rather a single round that may or may not be influenced by the environment or personal factors. It’s pretty apparent that with Maul, there won’t be any 10/10 landslides and his track record of battles compliment that notion. Here are just a few examples:

Siolo'urmanka

A Jedi Master who switched life on monk-mode, renouncing the lightsaber and it's practice entirely. So it comes as shock when Maul faces this guy and gets slapped with a wooden stick. It’s a fight the Sith Assassin should have won, yet overcoming him took form in a second fight with a cheapened victory. Did Maul eventually surpass Siolo? I don’t see a single reason why he should have, he was perfectly fine with omitting the old master’s combat superiority, and rather content in winning via prepared booby-trap. There was no benchmark set to surpass him, rather that Maul thought he already did by staging a fancy trick.

Mighella

Nothing to her name but an uninspired accolade from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia. Usually when characters receive their token hypes, they’re referred as one of the best of their faction - particularly when said faction is a relative unknown. But the encyclopedia settles on “one of the better nightsisters” as their description for Mighella. The problem here is that there were no named nightsisters kicking around while she was alive, yet she keeps up with Maul in a sword fight regardless, losing due to her semi-lightsaber resistant blade only being semi-resistant. Mighella was the only Force sensitive fighter of the Black Sun syndicate, and it is rather apparent he could not handle her like the rest. Other powerhouses have walked through armies of people like her and Dooku’s stint with Talzin’s best makes it all seem underwhelming.

Darsha Assant

The first in a series of novices to give Maul difficulty and very nearly kill him. It’s not enough that dueling is basically obsolete, or that the Jedi are suffering from diminished Force abilities - Mace Windu Attack of the Clones. The circumstances are irrelevant, as the premise is that anyone can win against Maul and not that they always will.

Obi Wan - As of TPM

Fiction does not represent something real, since what it refers to is not really there. Fiction is not what the creator had in mind at some moment during composition of the work, or what the writer thinks the work means after it is finished, or what reasons they had for including certain parts of the work. Maul got cut in half where he shouldn’t have, with every advantage on his side. There are no excuses for bad writing. This is a mark of Maul’s stupidity.

Kanan

I need not elaborate.

Does Maul suck? There existed bygone fighters who just by the breadth of their environment, had to become warriors of Maul's prestige. Whether it be to survive, or at least avoid having their legs cut-off by Padawans. In that regard, I don’t know if he would past the training wheel stages. Maul's training was much harsher than that of Jedi in his time, but I don’t know if he would’ve survived the practique on Korriban’s Academy.

”Instructors of Sith acolytes, the overseers are tasked with rooting out the weak and molding the next great Sith who will lead the Empire to glory. Cruelty, manipulation, and deceit are choice tools of instruction. By demanding nothing short of perfection from their class of students, acolytes quickly learn the cost of failure. While still a young teacher, Overseer Ragate took delight in cutting down the first acolyte to stumble under her tutelage - a grim and effective warning to her surviving students. Brutality is only one way an overseer shapes Sith acolytes. Some plant the seeds of deception, showering weaker acolytes with praise to goad another student to strike them down. Others dispatch acolytes on impossible tasks in the deadly tombs or hostile wastes of Korriban. Overseer Rance was one such instructor, sending his acolytes into the lower wilds. For days, the corrupting influence of Korriban's wilds twisted their minds and drove the students mad. Only two acolytes returned to Rance. He simply smiled and ordered the exhausted acolytes to battle to the death. The victor would be Sith."

- SW:TOR Encyclopedia

Maul's training was harsh, but what the acolytes had to endure on Korriban, might have been even harsher. Perhaps it's because the instructors didn't want to invest both time and resource in sub-standard trainees, rather than forge a process of elimination, and identify the finest of the lot. Maul is a fairly capable fighter, but he does bring to mind the primary flaw of the rule of two. The death of either master or apprentice is a massive blow to the model. The master could train an apprentice who's naturally unfit for mastery himself and reveal him to the uncultivated world in hopes that in an age of blaster deflection - and dueling incompetency - said apprentice won’t get divided in half by a novice Jedi. For Maul that is too much to ask, and I have nothing other than serious intentions when stating a bog-standard Sith Marauder could offer him a challenge.

Maul is invincible

On the point of Mighella, like many other things, Nightsisters changed dramatically with 2010's TCW. The classic Nightsisters were consistently depicted as far fewer in number, and much more individually powerful.

Always been curious on the subject of Siolo'urmanka. IIRC the text describes him as a "Jedi War Hero" or something along those lines, but it's never elaborated upon what war he participated in, how old he was, or anything of the sort.

Mighella

Nothing to her name but an uninspired accolade from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia. Usually when characters receive their token hypes, they’re referred as one of the best of their faction - particularly when said faction is a relative unknown.

What?

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/star-wars-mighella-respect-thread-1766196/

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/nightsisters-respect-thread-1781764/

Originally posted by NewGuy01
On the point of Mighella, like many other things, Nightsisters changed dramatically with 2010's TCW. The classic Nightsisters were consistently depicted as far fewer in number, and much more individually powerful.

Always been curious on the subject of Siolo'urmanka. IIRC the text describes him as a "Jedi War Hero" or something along those lines, but it's never elaborated upon what war he participated in, how old he was, or anything of the sort.

He was described as one of the greatest living Jedi warriors.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
What?

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/star-wars-mighella-respect-thread-1766196/

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/nightsisters-respect-thread-1781764/

Oh?

And would you like to point out the quotes that contradict that notion? I've already included the only one that discusses her skills. It was underwhelming.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Oh?

And would you like to point out the quotes that contradict that notion? I've already included the only one that discusses her skills. It was underwhelming.

Nothing to her name? Despite at least 1 direct quote about her and 4 other indirect quotes which would apply to Mighella, saying how skilled and powerful she would be.

She has more than just 1 quote to her name that would give more to her abilities.

Zen, he's trolling. Ignore him.


Nothing to her name? Despite at least 1 direct quote about her

Yes thankyou Zenwolf, I've already made mentions to the encyclopedia's token description of her and how uninspiring it was.

quote:
and 4 other indirect quotes which would apply to Mighella, saying how skilled and powerful she would be.

You'll have to excuse me for any petulance. You see, I'm not exactly balled over at your ability to collect quotes without the ability to apply context to them. The material tells the nightsister's were powerful and skilled, much like any warrior faction that exists in Star Wars. What they don't tell us is how they amassed that power. Did they tell you how Queen Zalem came along a couple of years after Mighella’s death, having rediscovered Dathomir's legendary and forgotten Star Temples, and presumably a lot of the knowledge that came with them, knowledge and skills that Mighella might not have known? So at best we can say she was an above average nightsister from her accolade, the fact she was allowed to venture off Dathomir and her relative lack of knowledge. That is it however.

Originally posted by MythLord
Zen, he's trolling. Ignore him.

This is honestly getting old.

Edit : I'm not trolling, so please stop derailing the discussion.

Urmanka is cool man, I have no problem Maul losing to him. Losing to TPM Kenobi was gross and Kanan is ****ing disgusting.

For this topic I find the name of the thread quite interesting, along with the motive. Why single out Maul? Just for having several "low" showings? To answer the thread, I do think anyone could beat or challenge Maul, but I think anyone can beat or challenge anyone in the Star Wars Universe, because story-telling isn't reliant on who should logically win the fight, but what outcome of the fight would better fit the story. You have Palpatine almost being assassinated by non-force sensitive Imperial officers (Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison), Darth Vader tripping over his own arm (Splinter of the Mind's Eye), Canderous surviving his encounter with Nihilus (Kotor II), generally any showing of Luke post-DE, Grievous losing to Gungans (TCW), and most infamous to me, Anakin murdering the Son a la backstab (TCW). A lot of characters have a lot of showings where they seemingly under-perform. If you don't look at context (I'll avoid addressing the unbalancing of the force = universal DS nexus mainly because I need to do some research before arguing for or against it), some pretty zany stuff happens in Star Wars. Ultimately I think Star Wars debating is pointless, because even if you have the most logical argument for a character winning, it's not up to you, but the director or writer or whatever of the next piece of the star wars franchise to determine who would win a MU (cough cough Revan novel). I mean, to look at DC, Batman should not be surviving many of the conflicts he involves himself in, peak-human or no; but he will and must for the story, which is all that matters. But I'll still debate because while the result of the debate doesn't matter anywhere outside the forum, debating is about the exchange of ideas between individuals and can be a fun hobby if the topics are interesting, and the only topic I could see myself being interested in debating is Star Wars, as pointless as it is. Maul losing to TPM Kenobi is lame (though Kenobi was on the cusp of knighthood at that time regardless), but he still gutted Qui-Gon and contends with and beats TCW Kenobi. Maul being given pause by Mighella is overshadowed by the fact that he still BEAT her. If giving pause is enough to assert a character's competence, then my esteem on a lot of characters will have to rise 😛 . Didn't Darsha use a suicide attack (that failed) because she knew she was no match for Maul? In the same source in which Maul handily beat her master Anoon? As for the training, I suggest reading ILS's respect thread of TPM Maul, because I am not convinced some trials at Korriban equal what Maul had to go through. Edgy overseers don't have much on Señor Palpatine. Could a Random Sith Marauder from SWTOR offer Maul a challenge? Well, I would have to say no logically in a straight up battle scenario on even ground, but if a marauder is reincarnated in Rebels s3, and said marauder becomes important to the plot well .... 😉

Wow Solar next time paragraphs and spacing. But I agree the SWU works a little different than comics do about what can challenge or defeat bigger characters.

hello drew

It's all just inconsistencies with writing. Different writers have different interpretations on each character :/
Can't always hold it against the character's combat ability.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
It's all just inconsistencies with writing. Different writers have different interpretations on each character :/
Can't always hold it against the character's combat ability.

True dat

To further press this and get some idea of people's thinking.

Why is it bad lesser characters give challenge to bigger ones?

I'm not really seeing the issue here. Let's take an example here for a minute.

Character A has been around for years, to showcase feats and so forth and generally being noted as a deadly combatant.

Character B however appears in all of 1 comic issue with A and gives him a fight, B character is noted in other sources as being a deadly combatant and having various weapons and abilities.

Character A however beats B regardless of this, yet is still given a fight.

Now which is better? Character A just wading through thugs?

Or Character A beating lesser Character B in a fight?

I would assume the 2nd choice, which then this wouldn't diminish Character A's abilities as a character at all, it would make it a greater showing rather then him just going through some random thugs.

This is what Star Wars does a lot of the time. It actually expands on the Universe as a whole when they do this, the SWU everything is given detail, even to the smallest thing a lot of the time.

You don't have a main character just go and beat up some guys and that's the end of it.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Wow Solar next time paragraphs and spacing. But I agree the SWU works a little different than comics do about what can challenge or defeat bigger characters.

Sorry, when I post I kinda just write what I'm thinking then hit reply. I'll try to present my thoughts better in the future!

Awh, a youngster. I like you, SP.

So as it turns out, I was completely spot on with my assessment of Darth Maul.