KotOR II Jedi Council vs Tython Jedi Strike Team

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Like who? Stass Allie? Coleman Trebor? Coleman Kcaj? Because the answer to all of these happens to be yes.

Allie does, tho. Well... one.

Team 2, seem more skilled.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Like who? Stass Allie? Coleman Trebor? Coleman Kcaj? Because the answer to all of these happens to be yes.

Not quite who I had in mind. I also don't need your opinion, I know from chat your problem with the masters has less to do with an era bias than certain other debaters around here 😉

Please. I don't rank KotOR II characters lowly because they're in KotOR II, nor do I rank some, as in like 4, PT characters highly because they're in the PT.

Originally posted by Selenial
You don't consider cut content viable, IIRC.

Tell me though, would you consider the relatively unexplored members from the PT Jedi Council mooks too?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Like who? Stass Allie? Coleman Trebor? Coleman Kcaj? Because the answer to all of these happens to be yes.

Yeah, I made this thread with the intention of team 2 winning sabers every time, team 1 winning Force every time, and all-out likely going to team 2 (6-7/10?)

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Please. I don't rank KotOR II characters lowly because they're in KotOR II, nor do I rank some, as in like 4, PT characters highly because they're in the PT.

Even with cut content, they're a bunch of people who get toyed with casually.

Ahh but you do, you just don't realise it. You dismiss the fact the few force feats they actually have are good compared to a lot of PT Council Members, because they were manhandled by Traya. You use Traya's treatment of them to lower them as force wielders instead of raise her, because of your opinion on her and the era in general.

'Your preconceptions are irrelevant.' Is much easier to type Sel.

Well, sabers and Force are such pitched battles that I may as well have not made those rounds.

We're pretty much only discussing all-out, lol.

Also, what's this about Zez-Kai Ell being a weak link? He's more skilled than Kavar and probably similarly powerful.

Ignorance, simply put.

Well, I made this with the expectation that the K2 team would be lowballed, but not with the expectation that they would win the fight overall anyways.

Honestly, Lsu is MVP in sabers but the clear weak link in Force.

I don't expect Sarro to be stronger than her in Force, either. Bane was simply far more powerful than Zannah at this point, and less pressed in sabers, so his ability to dominate with the Force actually manifested itself.

But yeah, if Vrook could put Dantooine! Exile in Stasis, he can do it to either Sarro or Raskta. At worst, he can do something similar to what he did to the Exile's party in the caves.

Originally posted by SunRazer
But yeah, if Vrook could put Dantooine! Exile in Stasis, he can do it to either Sarro or Raskta. At worst, he can do something similar to what he did to the Exile's party in the caves.

Oh sweet summer child, you have much to learn. The masters are featless, remember?

You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment.

Originally posted by Selenial
Ahh but you do, you just don't realise it.

You dismiss the fact the few force feats they actually have are good compared to a lot of PT Council Members, because they were manhandled by Traya.

You use Traya's treatment of them to lower them as force wielders instead of raise her, because of your opinion on her and the era in general.

Lmfao, the double standards are absolutely hilarious.

Went through KotOR 2 again, according to Kreia the Jedi Masters were too powerful to be allowed to live.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I don't dismiss their feats because they get manhandled by Traya. I scale them by the fact that they got manhandled by Traya. There's a difference.

No, I use Traya's treatment of them to place them lower than Traya, who is already lowered by the statements of her creator. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't give a shit about your, or anyone's really, opinion of her feats or accolades when it's being compared to the Word of God. I don't care about her era, and I don't care about the vast majority of any era. Or the mythos, if we're being honest. Traya's a mid-tier combatant who's able to take on all three of them at once. That makes them look bad whether you like it or not.

No, there's no real difference to be honest. Their feats are quantifiable in comparison to every other era because they don't rely on scaling from other force users. It is the most concrete way of placing a character, to lower them based on an "unknown" (which Traya is if you don't solidly rank the others first) is both a fallacy and factually inaccurate.

To use Avellone's statements are retarded, tbh. What statement puts her as a "mid-tier" combatant. In Avellone's mind, she's not as strong as the ancient Sith, but in Avellone's mind every ancient Sith was Vitiate tier, and destroying planets on a whim. He doesn't write for the eras which he discusses, and Drew Karpyshyn even goes out of his way to say that an authors opinion is no more relevant than ours when discussing works he had no involvement in, their only usefulness is clarifying details. So please, again, tell me what quote you think is so drastically game changing in regards to her power levels that you must ignore the Council's feats and lower them because she's garbage?

Because that's your intrinsic era bias. Every character has feats that are quantifiable and comparable to other eras because they don't involve other characters. Traya's feats aren't like that, she relies on placement of other individuals in her era to actually show where she lies.

If you arbitrarily judge Traya's prowess first, based on nothing canonical for no reason, you're scaling the rest of the era down and ignoring their strong showings because "nope herpa derp Traya crushed them and she's shit". Like I said, it culminates in an era bias whether purposeful or not.