He-Man vs Thor.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
If Spiderman flipped a tree sized snake, I'd be impressed, I guess.

The implications, sure, but its not like he was dragging the 9 worlds.

He was pushing back against machinery.

He pushed against the "will" of Yggdrasil. It's a cosmological centerpiece that governs their pantheon for crying out loud.

Pushing back against machinery? Lol.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

Too bad Mjolnir is it's own power source and is not just a super durable hammer that's being swung by Thor.

If Thor dropped Mjolnir and just locked his fists together and started throwing Captain Kirk hammerfists at Gorr, the torque would still be there, but would it cause anywhere close to that collateral damage?

Highly unlikely. Seeing as it was supposed to be impressive when Gorr was tossing some small chunks of a moon at them in the same fight. That's a physical feat, and nowhere near as impressive as Mjolnir's collateral damage.

Sorry, but Mjolnir absolute muddies the waters for the feat.

Let's take it a step further. Thor doubled his strength when he smashed Exitar's armor and caused planetwide shockwaves. Hmm...? What was dynamic there? His strength maybe??? Hint... Belt of Strength.

So unless u think Mjolnir was massively amped during godbomb, the logical conclusion would be the amount of power/strength Thor provides when he attacks.

He provides what is needed for the hammer to achieve.
http://imgur.com/FVrqJgY

Originally posted by CosmicComet

*Screenshot, not scan.

And what about it? What did Leo show or do that was supposed to be negate the feat?

The art is bad, but we see He-Man push two of Eternia's moons back in place in that episode, and they are both more than large enough to significantly affect the tides of the whole planet.

We also see the moons behind the planet from a low-space/upper atmosphere view near the end of the episode and, well, they are moon sized as would be expected.

20:26.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mjbXAc5wEo

He-Man pushed two moon sized moons at high-hypersonic to low relativistic speeds. It didn't take him a lot of effort either.

😂 @ dynamic strength.

hysterical @ using bios.

Haha, not even being able to use smilies?

Phail.

Im sorry. But am I reading the same shit as the rest of you? Yall are using He-man riding a jet and pushing what looks to be a small asteroid and seriously claiming its a better feat than what Thor has? The jet was doing the pushing so please tell me your talking about some other moon pushing feat because I cant take you seriously if this is it. How is Mjolnir aiding Thor when Mjolnir holds the power of Thor but that stupid jet isnt helping he man? Worst argument I have ever heard on here.

What if He-Man is able to wield Mjölnir?

Originally posted by lawest9
Low herald you say?...........not according to this video analysis.

https://youtu.be/kfrOaNxqlpQ

Low heralds don't casually move a moon.

Originally posted by Digi
A case could be made for mid, yes. However, he lacks mobility, his rogues gallery is pathetic, and he's occasionally had issues with low durability showings relative to his other feats. And the PC Supes fight is a complete non-feat for either one. He-Man has some utter cheese feats to stand alongside any ridiculous PC character. But on the whole, he's where he belongs in the tiers. With a possible few exceptions, The mid tier on this forum would mop the floor with him.

With Mjolnir, Thor wins. Much as I love Adam, it's not really a debate in my mind.

Golden armor He-Man from the end of the recent comic series could probably take Thor, considering how powerful Skeletor was (Even stronger then Orko, I'd wager, and he possessed DC Earth.)

@AdamPoE - it would be interesting, and he might actually be worthy. But Thor can summon it to himself at any time. It's a slight hindrance, not a game-changer for He-Man.

I didn't watch the Superman v. He-Man Youtube analysis, but if they think it's a fight, they're just not taking all of Kal's powers into account. For a ridiculously simple one, Adam could play defense for a while but has little-to-no legit answer for a battle fought at range against someone in his tier. Superman could heat vision from space until he won. They don't fight like that in comics of course, but these are battle forums.

I also continually find the moon thing hilarious. We discount feats that are less than a decade old because they aren't fresh. But one cheese feat from the 80's and nobody can let it go, despite an entire canon of feats and showings that puts him squarely in low herald. Again, intelligently fought, 90% of mid herald wipes the floor with He-Man. The only reason this particular thread is a fight is because Thor often fights like a dumb brawler, which is the only way he potentially loses bc that's Adam's wheelhouse.

Originally posted by cdtm
Golden armor He-Man from the end of the recent comic series could probably take Thor, considering how powerful Skeletor was (Even stronger then Orko, I'd wager, and he possessed DC Earth.)

Potentially. But that's also cherry picking versions to build a case. If we gave Thor some of the cosmic goodies he's had through the years (Belt of Strength, etc.) he'd win too.

Originally posted by Digi
@AdamPoE - it would be interesting, and he might actually be worthy. But Thor can summon it to himself at any time. It's a slight hindrance, not a game-changer for He-Man.

I didn't watch the Superman v. He-Man Youtube analysis, but if they think it's a fight, they're just not taking all of Kal's powers into account. For a ridiculously simple one, Adam could play defense for a while but has little-to-no legit answer for a battle fought at range against someone in his tier. Superman could heat vision from space until he won. They don't fight like that in comics of course, but these are battle forums.

I also continually find the moon thing hilarious. We discount feats that are less than a decade old because they aren't fresh. But one cheese feat from the 80's and nobody can let it go, despite an entire canon of feats and showings that puts him squarely in low herald. Again, intelligently fought, 90% of mid herald wipes the floor with He-Man. The only reason this particular thread is a fight is because Thor often fights like a dumb brawler, which is the only way he potentially loses bc that's Adam's wheelhouse.

Potentially. But that's also cherry picking versions to build a case. If we gave Thor some of the cosmic goodies he's had through the years (Belt of Strength, etc.) he'd win too.

I'm... not so sure.

Skeletor was arguably Skyfather level at that point. Even Lord Thor isn't a gimmie, given he was never quite in Odin's league..

Originally posted by cdtm
I'm... not so sure.

Skeletor was arguably Skyfather level at that point. Even Lord Thor isn't a gimmie, given he was never quite in Odin's league..

I'll happily concede, as that isn't really OP's fight. Classic Thor absorbed and redirected attacks from Gungnir, though, for example. And he always did better against Thanos than pretty much any herald. I'm also a particular fan of his fight with Mercy which, from beginning to end, I think might be his best showing ever, and was against a legitimate abstract-level being. Collectively, no, he's not Odin's equal, but he's punched outside his weight class on more than one occasion. Cherry-picking has to go both ways if we assume the best of combatants.

Originally posted by Digi
@AdamPoE - it would be interesting, and he might actually be worthy. But Thor can summon it to himself at any time. It's a slight hindrance, not a game-changer for He-Man.

But could Mjölnir escape He-Man's grasp? Without his hammer, can Thor still direct lightning? What happens when Thor is fighting hand-to-hand against someone wielding two mystical weapons?

Originally posted by Digi
I didn't watch the Superman v. He-Man Youtube analysis, but if they think it's a fight, they're just not taking all of Kal's powers into account. For a ridiculously simple one, Adam could play defense for a while but has little-to-no legit answer for a battle fought at range against someone in his tier. Superman could heat vision from space until he won. They don't fight like that in comics of course, but these are battle forums.

He-Man took Superman's heat vision to the face, and was merely annoyed.

Originally posted by Digi
I also continually find the moon thing hilarious. We discount feats that are less than a decade old because they aren't fresh. But one cheese feat from the 80's and nobody can let it go, despite an entire canon of feats and showings that puts him squarely in low herald. Again, intelligently fought, 90% of mid herald wipes the floor with He-Man. The only reason this particular thread is a fight is because Thor often fights like a dumb brawler, which is the only way he potentially loses bc that's Adam's wheelhouse.

The difference is that one character has not been continuously published since 1962, so we cannot discount feats greater than 10 years. We kind of have to cherry pick, because he does not have as many showings.

this is ridiculous, why is anyone still debating? Thor hits harder, is more durable, is just as fast in combat, has FAR more raw power, has a bunch of hax if we go by his classic version, has travel speed enough to blitz he-man across the universe if he wants ect.

and seriously, the lame argument of "X could be worthy and take his hammer" is idiotic. people have been trying for 70 + years in marvel and only a select few have ever managed it. also thor has all his weather abilities even without mjolnir!

@Adam - KMC isn't letting me quote your post. So...

First off, lol @ us debating this. Usually we're the ones backing Adam together. He's outmatched here, though. Anyway:

Mjolnir can teleport into Thor's hand as well. It's not always a flight thing. And regardless of method, I think He-Man trying to wield Mjolnir while it's actively trying to get back to Thor would be more a hindrance than a help. Obviously if he's dual-wielding without trouble, Thor's boned. He still has powers, but he'd be in trouble. But we're talking about a hypothetical at that point, and not a likely one imo.

Heat vision? When was this? In the recent crossover, I thought that in their fight Superman wasn't actually Superman.

And He-Man has plenty of showings, especially since we put on our suspension-of-disbelief goggles and routinely include He-Man's feats from multiple companies and mediums, as if they're the same thing. I stand by my point: for some reason we have a weird double standard with He-Man when it comes to feats, and a single, incredibly old feat that barely makes sense is given WAY more importance than we'd give to literally any Marvel or DC character. Imagine if Thor had switched companies three times and we were talking about a feat from the 80's that he performed in a made for TV movie. I get that that's a little bit of a strawman, but it's meant to illustrate the point. We're like 6 degrees removed from 80's He-Man, and that's still the biggest thing we talk about. I do it too, so I'm not saying it's wrong. There's just a double standard not to cherry-pick Thor's best 1-2 feats from any era and hold them up as the Thor showing up to this fight.

Originally posted by Digi
@Adam - KMC isn't letting me quote your post. So...

First off, lol @ us debating this. Usually we're the ones backing Adam together. He's outmatched here, though. Anyway:

Mjolnir can teleport into Thor's hand as well. It's not always a flight thing. And regardless of method, I think He-Man trying to wield Mjolnir while it's actively trying to get back to Thor would be more a hindrance than a help. Obviously if he's dual-wielding without trouble, Thor's boned. He still has powers, but he'd be in trouble. But we're talking about a hypothetical at that point, and not a likely one imo.

Heat vision? When was this? In the recent crossover, I thought that in their fight Superman wasn't actually Superman.

And He-Man has plenty of showings, especially since we put on our suspension-of-disbelief goggles and routinely include He-Man's feats from multiple companies and mediums, as if they're the same thing. I stand by my point: for some reason we have a weird double standard with He-Man when it comes to feats, and a single, incredibly old feat that barely makes sense is given WAY more importance than we'd give to literally any Marvel or DC character. Imagine if Thor had switched companies three times and we were talking about a feat from the 80's that he performed in a made for TV movie. I get that that's a little bit of a strawman, but it's meant to illustrate the point. We're like 6 degrees removed from 80's He-Man, and that's still the biggest thing we talk about. I do it too, so I'm not saying it's wrong. There's just a double standard not to cherry-pick Thor's best 1-2 feats from any era and hold them up as the Thor showing up to this fight.

Superman wasn't Superman. He was a construct created by Orko.

However, it should be noted Orko never intended for Superman to die. There's no way he could have known Adam would skewer him, he only wanted an inside man he could control. Meaning, he'd want to make as realistic a version of the character as possible.

And Orko certainly had the mojo to do it. He was INSANELY powerful at the time. Possibly close to Skeletor's levels when he absorbed the Castle.. (Orko's power source basically granted wish's..)

Originally posted by cdtm
Superman wasn't Superman. He was a construct created by Orko.

However, it should be noted Orko never intended for Superman to die. There's no way he could have known Adam would skewer him, he only wanted an inside man he could control. Meaning, he'd want to make as realistic a version of the character as possible.

And Orko certainly had the mojo to do it. He was INSANELY powerful at the time. Possibly close to Skeletor's levels when he absorbed the Castle.. (Orko's power source basically granted wish's..)

It is important to note that the Superman that He-Man fought was not a magical construct, but a clone created by magical means.

Orko controlled him the same way he controlled the other JLA members. The only difference is the clone was not burdened with Superman's moral reservations.

So who wins between the skyfather/high cosmic versions of the characters?

Essentially Rune King Thor and Golden Battlearmor He-Man.

Originally posted by cdtm
Superman wasn't Superman. He was a construct created by Orko.

However, it should be noted Orko never intended for Superman to die. There's no way he could have known Adam would skewer him, he only wanted an inside man he could control. Meaning, he'd want to make as realistic a version of the character as possible.

And Orko certainly had the mojo to do it. He was INSANELY powerful at the time. Possibly close to Skeletor's levels when he absorbed the Castle.. (Orko's power source basically granted wish's..)

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
It is important to note that the Superman that He-Man fought was not a magical construct, but a clone created by magical means.

Orko controlled him the same way he controlled the other JLA members. The only difference is the clone was not burdened with Superman's moral reservations.

You guys seem set on a favorable interpretation of the fight for He-Man, so I won't say much else to try to persuade you. This sort of apologist logic rarely holds much traction, though. If every time something that was almost Superman - or really, almost anyone in comics - counted as a knock against the real deal, it would be open season for BS. As DC has hammered home incredibly explicitly in comics, the character of Superman is something of a conceptual heroic fact in the universe, one that defies attempts to mimic or clone him, regardless of the means.

It's the same reason I don't count anything against the DC characters from the Wildstorm crossover. Hell, those were created by an equally batsh*t reality-altering villain, and intended to be just like the real thing. But they weren't real.

Anyway, lobotomy from space ftw against Superman. And a closer fight against Thor bc Thor rarely fights smart, but still has a huge edge overall if he utilizes anything other than his brawling.

Originally posted by Stoic
@Shadowfyre, I agree with most of what you said based on feats and such, but I could see an argument being formed to inquire about exactly how powerful He-Man's rogues were, in comparison to existing canon, albeit from another company. Such as Marvel, and DC?

His canon after all does revolve around him being from an entirely different reality than 616, which by chance includes all of the divergent Earth's that exist in DC canon. Beast Man on Earth may be just as strong as the Juggernaut. He Man has certainly exceeded Cain's top strength feat by miles. He Man was able to push a moon, while it took Cain, years to escape a Citadel approaching the size of Mount Fuji. I think most would agree that He-Man is the stronger of the two. Then again, we could be looking at the same thing and come out with two different views. Just wanted to put that out there.

So far I've only read 80's stuff(the original mini comics, DC's 80's run, some of the Star/Marvel run), but thought I'd chime in.

I get what you mean, but I don't see the argument working under the circumstances. As has been pointed out, He-Man has variable strength, depending on how much energy is being channeled into him via Castle Greyskull.

I've seen enough to think pretty much all the heroes and villains have at least a degree of superhuman strength. He-Man once had a tug of war with all the heroes, and was casually stalemating them while they struggled. I've yet to see He-Man have that big an advantage over one of the villains, usually fighting them decently to clearly evenly. But none of the villains have shown a similar strength advantage when they face heroes other than He-Man.

If He-Man didn't have variable strength, or we had a clear base/average level for him that was relatively close to his higher feats, or at least characters in the MOTU universe had non combat feats competitive with He-Man other than Skeletor(the only two I can think of actually requires quite possibly hyperbolic lip service), then I would agree on your argument.

Originally posted by Digi
You guys seem set on a favorable interpretation of the fight for He-Man, so I won't say much else to try to persuade you. This sort of apologist logic rarely holds much traction, though. If every time something that was almost Superman - or really, almost anyone in comics - counted as a knock against the real deal, it would be open season for BS. As DC has hammered home incredibly explicitly in comics, the character of Superman is something of a conceptual heroic fact in the universe, one that defies attempts to mimic or clone him, regardless of the means.

It's the same reason I don't count anything against the DC characters from the Wildstorm crossover. Hell, those were created by an equally batsh*t reality-altering villain, and intended to be just like the real thing. But they weren't real.

Anyway, lobotomy from space ftw against Superman. And a closer fight against Thor bc Thor rarely fights smart, but still has a huge edge overall if he utilizes anything other than his brawling.

As for this fight, I see it depending on how the fight's approached by each. Thor def wins the ranged game or if both are holding back, but if they end up bloodlusted in melee I see He Man as having a literal edge for the simple reason that the Sword is a cutting weapon. So I see Thor eventually succumbing to bloodloss even if He-Man can't score something like a decapitation or dismemberment. Being a cutting weapon is basically the only reason the Executioner's Ax is considered more dangerous than the hammer after all.